Ive been up all night, government healthcare

GeorgiePorgie

PR Founding Father
Sturd will love this, i'm sure he will dissect my entire piece and prove how I "just don't get it."

I've been up all night. If you politico guys want to see what Nurses go through and hospitals go through read my annotated bibliography on three articles I researched.

It will shed light on the bull manure nurses and hospital financial management deal with everyday, and how government healthcare just adds to the pile of this manure.


here's what I wrote: Read if you want, if you don't no big deal just stay ill informed and think you know exactly what is going on in hospitals. "Nurses got it made, they make great money....blah blah, Hospitals got it made they're revenue sucking vaccuums." Both not the case.

Oh and Thanks Obama!


Clarke, L. (2010). A common flaw in healthcare finance mechanisms that adversely affects service quality and capacity: professional caregiver insurance risk in the trenches. Journal of Psychiatric and Mental Health Nursing, 16(10), 938-940. doi: http://dx.doi.org.proxy.library.ohiou.edu/10.1111/j.1365-2850.2009.01514.x.


The editor is a Registered Nurse that works for the Journal of Psychiatric Mental Health Nursing. The audience is intended for nurses in the field. The article is well researched and has supporting evidence. In my opinion, I feel that the problem explored is not only a problem in psychiatric units but also intensive care units (ICUs). This articles explores how nurses are falling prey to set payment style (capitation) service models as opposed to the insurance model that pays for services. This new style of a set payment system is moving the uncertainty of financial outcomes from the insurers to the providers. At the root of the concept it seems simple to manage as providers can simply adapt treatments to the entitlements of the patient.



Additionally, when looking at this from an ethical standpoint this payment type is problematic. There are patients that do not have any clear indication of their expected outcomes. So, it is difficult for billing to be applied to these patients when it is unclear on the longevity or the number of services needed. According to the article capitation negatively impacts healthcare settings and providers. It also increases inefficiency in every way possible of operations.


I chose this article because in the ICU, we consistently come across patients who cannot be placed into a set payment system. The outcome is unclear at any time during the admission. It is not as easy as a healthy individual coming in for a blood pressure check, lab work, and a consultation by a physician. I feel as though government involvement in healthcare is restricting quality care given to patients on the basis of reimbursements to set payment systems. Their idea is to reduce cost by explicitly determining what it costs per patient to receive any given service. It cannot be modeled this way as there are too many variables, quality will decrease and patients will lose. Additionally, once systems are not reimbursed for services provided hospitals will cut from nurses salary, benefits, and staffing among numerous other things to off set the rising cost from unpaid reimbursements. So now we have patients losing, and nurses losing in an uncertain dawn of new government involved healthcare.


Douglas, K. (2010). Ratios--if it were only that easy. Nursing Economic$, 28(2), 119-125. doi: 2010626743.


Kathy Douglas is the founder and president of the Institute for Staffing Excellence and Innovations. Her knowledge is vast when evaluating today’s issues of reimbursement and staffing with the influx of governmental involvement. The audience is intended for both nurses and management in the field. The article explores how to provide safe, effective and cost-effective care through staffing, but it is not simple. The system is broken on both sides of nursing and finance. It will take close collaboration between nursing and finance to fix what is broken. Variability is a nightmare to control, and it is prevalent in units—changing from minute to minute. Furthermore, in California, and according to the author, there is no clear indication that mandatory staffing ratios increase quality. They can be burdensome for cost-effectiveness as well.

More importantly, to determine staffing ratios it important for nurses to be competent and have valuable experience. Once we give that determination up to mandatory staffing ratios, the expertise and competence of the nurse is given to the government, which has no direct expertise involving the duties of the registered nurse. The author really brings to light the problem with staffing when she goes on to explain that the static numbers of formulas used to measure operational performance do not actually measure the operational performance. Then the plans based on those numbers will never work. This seems to be the problem where I work, the operational performance algorithms that are in place do not work and thus staffing cuts are made when they should not be. The irritation level reaches higher levels, turnover increases and ultimately quality decreases. This type of environment skews the relationship and makes a symptom-level intervention system attractive (pay “a set amount for a set service” only system). But this is a false premise; this is the wrong route to go. To determine a solution, the system must first be fixed.

I chose this article because many valid points are brought up. In the unit, you hear statements from nurses: “we need mandatory minimum staffing numbers.” Staff is upset about cuts and turnover rate increases. On the surface it seems easy—just add more nurses, and there is a clear divide on finance departments and nursing staff. Both parties do anything and everything but work together. It is a constant battle between the two, which has to cost the hospital an insane mount of money. Hiring, and orienting new nurses to a competent state in the unit is not cheap—if nurses and finance could work together then the orientation cost can be reduced by retaining the nurses in the current workforce.

Sanford, K. (2010). Nurse staffing finding the right number and mix. Healthcare Financial Management, 64(9), 38-39. doi: 2010795168.

Kathleen Sanford is the chief nursing officer (CNO) and is responsible for quality and patient safety. She also recognizes it is important that finance and nursing collaborate to attack the problems in today’s healthcare reimbursement bubble. The audience is geared again towards nurses in the field and financial managers for collaboration. Her article discusses the need for collaboration as well as turnover relating to staffing dissatisfaction. Furthermore, nosocomial infections are higher in facilities with lower registered nurse hours per patient day. Realistically, the problem I see that the author touches upon is that nurses state the route of staffing linking quality patient care and finance leaders are being mandated to reduce costs in anticipation of declining payments under healthcare reform.

When times get hard, hospitals look to nursing expenses for cuts. With nurses being the largest work force in almost all hospitals, cuts to them significantly reduces operating costs but at the expense of quality and satisfaction. The problems lies within accounting for nurse services, which historically has never been done. So likewise, if they have no true understanding of nursing costs, it makes it exceptionally difficult to manage those costs. Cost cutting at the expense of staff levels by reducing nurse workforce is seen immediately, but poses a significant risk later of revenue collection and increase in overall costs through turnover and lack quality.

This article sheds light on the problems with staffing, finance teams and cost cutting. I chose it because nursing is the largest workforce in most hospitals and cuts are being made to nurses that immediately show a reduction of costs; however, then this becomes a revolving door (where we get back to costs being out of control once again) over the long term due to training expense and increased number of adverse events (mistakes on the job—they happen). Adverse events are not going to be reimbursed. There is a clear problem implementing cost cutting techniques in the light of government healthcare. The Affordable Healthcare Act was pushed entirely too fast to gauge the true ramifications it will pose on healthcare. It was built on a lie that services would be cheaper, with no real evidence of how it was going to actually make the services cheaper—except through theory that has not been tested. The disconnect between caregivers and suits needs to be reconnected now more than ever in history of healthcare in the United States.
 
Sturd will love this, i'm sure he will dissect my entire piece and prove how I "just don't get it."

You won't get that from me. I can't read the articles, you must have an OSU account or work gives
you access.

Nurses/therapists/aides pay the price for all the bullshit that insurance and government
rules create, I think.

I agree the ACA was pushed too fast and never actually had any cost cutting. Deals
with the insurance lobbyists made sure of that. Do you think medicare patients are
different compared to privately insured (ACA or not) patients? Especially with
respect to cost drivers and outcomes of treatment?
 
Holy.....F(bleeeeeep)ing s(BLEEP)t. Sturd gets it. I have an ohio university account because I'm still going to school. Chasing the nurse practitioner masters degree after this. Should be done in about 3 years. It's never ending.


We treat everyone the same seriously. From the bedside, nurses don't know either way if they are insured or not. I can look it up, but I don't care, my obligation is the management and advocation for whoever is laying in that bed. Rich or poor, nice or assanine, funny or bitter, celebrity or common..... nonjudgemental. Even if I am judgemental, because as Humans we all are to an extent, it gets left at the door and the patient won't hear or see any part of that judgement.

The only difference they get is if they sign a paper saying they want to go to a hotel-like suite after I get them stable enough where they don't need ICU. But we could afford that uninsured patients if they agreed to pay. Of course, they won't agree to pay.
 
We treat everyone the same seriously. From the bedside, nurses don't know either way if they are insured or not. I can look it up, but I don't care, my obligation is the management and advocation for whoever is laying in that bed.

That's different than the feedback I get from my physical therapist wife. They are
pushed to discharge immediately after something I don't understand
but I think is a window of maximum payment. I'll have to gently ask as
she's had a bad week at work.
 
I wouldn't know because I'm in a unit where they are stuck here. Intensive care. They don't get to pick when to leave.


Psych does that. After x amount of paid days they discharge them back to the homeless streets of Cleveland.
 
Baker...thank you!

In the time I have known you and our recent friendship; your a genuine man. Your report is hard for me to understand because I don't ride quads...meaning I am a bike rider, I can ride a bike...I have been in pretty much construction type work and the race tracks...so I don't understand the medical field.

What I gathered from this goes beyond the medical field and into every facet of our daily lives...the concept of working together. I would like to think people would be more apt to work together in such an important field as medical is.

But we have reached a time where we are vastly unwilling to roll up our sleeves and get some skin in the game as a team. I see this in real life all the time. I'm not sure why it is this way, except for maybe it speaks volumes of our character as people or lack thereof.

I know it is hard to stay motivated when going against the grain or dealing with the nuts and bolts of leadership decisions that don't fully comprehend the weight of the consequnences of their decisions that fall on the shoulders of the people.

I also struggle with daily cirumcstances in myself and this world of seeing long distance as opposed to short sighted was on the way we perceive solutions to problems.

Keep pressing forward.
 
It's not limited to nurses.

Doctors aren't getting paid. Etc. if people aren't paid for expertise they won't continue in the field. You'll have lame duck nurses and doctors caring for you. Do you want that ?! I sure as hell don't.

The American health system could very well collapse in 20 years I beleive.
 
No Georgie, dare not mention the homeless with a Democrat in the White House. Now get a Republican in there watch the problem miraculously reappear. The media is so broken.

Call it Obamacare. Nothing is right about it, including the formal title. And we all have a ticket on this train wreck.

Good luck dealing with it Georgie. Fortunately my wife is a retired RN. I know she would become frustrated dealing with this mess professionally.

Are you working toward a nursing degree online?
 
It's 80% online.

Adult Gerontologic acute care nurse practitioner.

Will treat patients from 14 years old to 99 years in critical care environments. . . 2 more years.
 
The wifey is the ICU PT. Whatever the heck that means and seems to change day
to day. How do you give PT to somebody on a vent? She knows.

And absolutely there are price points for discharge that a non-profit hospital wants
the staff to hit to maximize, uh, non-profit.
 
I have no clue about the care portion but the costs and coverages side pisses me off. The care I have received over the years hasnt changed that I have noticed.

BUT my costs have more than doubled and the coverages have cut in half since "Obamacare" has passed. I see this directly as a patient and as a small business owner. I know Sturd has told me in the past that Im full of s**t so I expect a comment as such from him again. But I deal with it and know what the result has been. Then just to rub a little salt in the wound....I found out friday that since I dont purchase my company insurance through the ACA " Market place " online from the government I lost $2500 in tax credits that I received last year. Eff Obama and his health care " reform". That tax credit loss proves that the government wants total control of the healthcare system. I purchase insurance for my employees but I still get the shaft.

Another reason I have lost complete faith in the government.
 
Sounds like you should have at least checked out the marketplace. In Ohio at
least, it started working last fall.

I have no reason to think that wasn't your experience. I just know it wasn't a lot of
other peoples, including mine.
 
Wait a minute, you're insurance got cheaper?

Mines going up. I'm getting the shaft six ways to tuesday. Higher insurance. Less raises (they're merit based now....) Merit based...sounds great except when the guy with the MBA above tells the manager...you can only give 6 full meets in the unit....which then you can give them 3% raises, the rest get 1%...find reasons why they aren't FULLY MEETING there merit raises.

This whole system is F_______d; and if you work in healthcare you're getting DOUBLE f_______d.
 
Wait a minute, you're insurance got cheaper?

No but unlike Hershey it didn't come close to doubling and coverages didn't come close to halving. Coverage
improved slightly and costs went up about the average of the national rise last couple of years. As low as
3% in 2014.
http://kff.org/health-costs/press-r...amily-health-premiums-rise-3-percent-in-2014/

What hurt us, if anything did, is people crossing age thresholds that get a big age related increase. A
couple employees turning 50 hurt.
 
Im talking since the ACA was passed. I was able to lower my coverages this last renewal and drop my premiums just a hair due to the new ACA guidelines. You are charged by 1. Age 2. Smoker 3. Gender .

I checked the marketplace. I could type a novel on this.

I could have saved some money but going with a sliver plan my deductibles would have quadrupled. The plans had TERRIBLE coverage compared to what I currently have. The Med Mutual plan only paid on 3 office visits with a copay per year for my family. Id eat that up in the first 2 months of the winter with 5 year old twins. Then you pay 100% until you meet the 4000 family deductible. Then they pay 30% until you meet the 8000 family out of pocket.

Unless you have the gold plan the coverages suck.

And your link is BS. Every insurance agent I have talked to says that its MUCH worse in their experience than that article. At one point my broker claimed that his minimum increase for their entire customer base was 40%. That was the first renewal year after the ACA passed.
 
You are charged by 1. Age 2. Smoker 3. Gender .

And the first one is the only one you can't change.

!!!


And your link is BS. Every insurance agent I have talked to says that its MUCH worse in their experience than that article.

Yea OK. NY Times, WSJ, Kaiser Foundation, I found a number of others and will let you do your
own research (I know you won't). They are obviously not as good at researching this than your insurance agents
that make money and would like you to know it's more expensive now.

Got it.
 
Geez...I feel for you guys. I am even more thankful for the company I work for and the coverage I have after reading all this. I have it very good, more than I realized after listening to all this.
 
Geez...I feel for you guys. I am even more thankful for the company I work for and the coverage I have after reading all this. I have it very good, more than I realized after listening to all this.

I hope it stays that way for you. I work for a company that is part of a much larger entity and we saw some changes due to the ACA in 2013. Those changes (higher costs) were more significant and punitive during open enrollment in our plan last year.

I do well enough that it is just an irritant to me. To some of my employees it has a much greater significance and impact, percentage-wise. I don't have the answer to healthcare costs, but anytime the Government takes control of something, prices go up, not down and services go down, not up.

Savings were touted as part of the full court press to pass the ACA. Unless you count subsidies given to some, I don't personally know of anyone going through the exchange or still accessing their current providers that are talking about the savings they are enjoying. YMMV.
 
I feel like many companies are just going to pay the penalty to the government and tell employees to get their own insurance....

My copays DOUBLED.
My Insurance was $740 a year 5 years ago. I now pay $1470.
According to my Taxes, my total employer cost was 4300 a year 5 years ago, and now It's $8800. So my coverage which is almost like a Cadillac-plan would cost me $10,000ish a year. Where 5 years ago it would of cost me 5000ish a year. Or am I reading that wrong as it doesn't work like that?

And that's employer based. I still can't complain because I do have GREAT coverage. But it's getting more pricey, and my letters I recieve blame ACA in one way or another.

So either its a stunt to bump up cost and blame the government, or health insurance coverage is getting more expensive.
 
Yea OK. NY Times, WSJ, Kaiser Foundation, I found a number of others and will let you do your
own research (I know you won't). They are obviously not as good at researching this than your insurance agents
that make money and would like you to know it's more expensive now.

Got it.

I feel like many companies are just going to pay the penalty to the government and tell employees to get their own insurance....

My copays DOUBLED.
My Insurance was $740 a year 5 years ago. I now pay $1470.
According to my Taxes, my total employer cost was 4300 a year 5 years ago, and now It's $8800. So my coverage which is almost like a Cadillac-plan would cost me $10,000ish a year. Where 5 years ago it would of cost me 5000ish a year. Or am I reading that wrong as it doesn't work like that?

And that's employer based. I still can't complain because I do have GREAT coverage. But it's getting more pricey, and my letters I recieve blame ACA in one way or another.

So either its a stunt to bump up cost and blame the government, or health insurance coverage is getting more expensive.


No no, dont tell Sturd that! His articles know better than personal experience!!!!

Sturd, the problem with your article is that they look at the national health care stats not Ohio, or Stark county Ohio. My broker is talking from their companies experience, another broker in my town I talked to had the same experiences, I have had those as well as Georgie. Face it, as much as you want to say how great the ACA is ..... it isnt.
 
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