What really causes health care costs to rise

For every 1 insured pt there are 9 that believe they are entitled to free care and do not pay a dime for any of it.

i can't tell you how many free livers get slammed into uninsured alcoholics or persons that have no real shot of ever obtaining a normal life by leaving an icu or long term acute care facility.

Thats probably why they hike up prices. Hoping that you'll pay like the recchis did. Recchis could of got treatment from cancer doctors at their local hospital. But they had to go to Texas where maybe the policy was cash money or go to the local less specialized hospital down the street.


As long as hospitals are mandated by our govt to take care of illegal aliens that waltz in and have a child then you better expect your ass is gonna be paying for that advance premium to pick up the costs. The CEOs aren't gonna pay out of their pockets. They pass it to you and to the employees of the systems through increase medical benefit premiums, jacking up the cost of 1 tylenol to $1.50 when they get them by the thousands for pennies each.

if you want health insurance get a job. If your a business owner better have yourself covered. If you're a Reliefer on welfare don't bother paying they aren't garnishing your welfare assistance check.
 
GeorgiePorgie said:
For every 1 insured pt there are 9 that believe they are entitled to free care and do not pay a dime for any of it.
Click to expand...

So, you didn't bother to read the whole thing, eh?

No problem here. Just seems disingenuous to claim something with no absolutely no fact to back it
up.
 
sturd said:
So, you didn't bother to read the whole thing, eh?
Click to expand...

The whole thing? Yikes!

Another reason not to waste time with Time. The author sharing these rather bizarre healthcare anecdotes has made a fortune with the likes of CourtTV and American Lawyer. Those evil healthcare executives are paupers compared to this guy. Wonder why he doesn't mention tort reform? Appears he was there for the ruin of Newsweek, hopefully he will do the same for Time.

Third party payment systems perverted through government involvement just may be a culprit.
 
sturd said:
http://healthland.time.com/2013/02/20/bitter-pill-why-medical-bills-are-killing-us/

you can't read this without wondering
why our representatives haven't made policy decisions that would stop
the crazy increases in health care costs.
Click to expand...

Think about Healthcare today as the Auto Industry from 40 years ago…..in its effect to the current economy.
Everyone knows more of our income needs to be spent on it…. You, me, even the politicians.
….The kids coming out of collage need something to do.
 
k01 said:
Wonder why he doesn't mention tort reform?
Click to expand...

He does and it's one of the few conclusions he reaches that seems so
common sense as to be indisputable.

1. Limits on awards haven't slowed the increase in medical costs.

2. Safe-harbor clauses in the laws should be implemented ("a defendant doctor
or hospital could argue that the care provided was within the bounds of what
peers have established as reasonable under the circumstances")


k01 said:
Third party payment systems perverted through government involvement just may be a culprit.
Click to expand...

And you're so interested in the subject that you won't read enough to find out?
 
Disclaimer........I did not even open up your link to the article.

What makes healthcare go up........utilization of the plan. People dont even have primary care physicians today. They run into the "home town clinic" for every little cold, flu ect. It not a "clinic", it is a urgent care. Its costing you more, your insurance company more, and your employer more in premiums at renewal. The American public needs to be educated on shopping around for their healthcare. You can go to one facility for an MRI or CT scan and it will be $2000 and up. You can shop around and get the exact same procedure done for perhaps $750.....but we dont do this. The doctor says go here, so we go there. I personnally believe that everyone needs a Health Savings Account to spend as they see fit for their healthcare.

As Obamacare gets ramped up, you will see less and less doctors even available for care. Some doctors will not even take Obamacare plans because they will pay enough. Doctors today already do not take medicad becuase it pays too low. So there will be a serious shortage in doctors as we move forward. You already see doctors closing practices and joining large hospitals because of the cost, and everything today.

Obamacare is NOT going to make healthcare better. People with healthcare will see increases in their premiums and you will not be happy. The exchange Bronze plan is a lower deductable than most people even have today. And on top of that the Govt is mandating MANY things into the plans (things not necessary for a lot of us) that will cause some to pay for services that we dont even need. "Community" rates......guess what, your 25 and healthy......your going to pay considerably more than you used to pay. Estimates of somewhere around 25% more than you pay today.
 
sturd said:
He does and it's one of the few conclusions he reaches that seems so
common sense as to be indisputable.

1. Limits on awards haven't slowed the increase in medical costs.

2. Safe-harbor clauses in the laws should be implemented ("a defendant doctor
or hospital could argue that the care provided was within the bounds of what
peers have established as reasonable under the circumstances")




And you're so interested in the subject that you won't read enough to find out?
Click to expand...

Ha! There's even more? I scanned through part of it on my phone and the way it came up I saw a footnote followed by author's name and thought I was done. Stupid anecdotes, get to point Mr. Brill!

Don't those indisputable conclusions sort of contradict one another. And isn't standard of care already part of the law?
 
k01 said:
And isn't standard of care already part of the law?
Click to expand...

Incredibly, no. Part of why I thought the article was so interesting, I didn't know
that either.

Not really pertinent to the tort reform issue but 'standard of care' is part of what
started the whole 'death panel' meme. I also learned this from the article. Never
knew where the heck that whole thing came from.
 
John250 said:
What makes healthcare go up........utilization of the plan. People dont even have primary care physicians today. They run into the "home town clinic" for every little cold, flu ect. It not a "clinic", it is a urgent care. Its costing you more, your insurance company more, and your employer more in premiums at renewal. The American public needs to be educated on shopping around for their healthcare. You can go to one facility for an MRI or CT scan and it will be $2000 and up. You can shop around and get the exact same procedure done for perhaps $750.....but we dont do this. The doctor says go here, so we go there. I personnally believe that everyone needs a Health Savings Account to spend as they see fit for their healthcare.
Click to expand...

John250, you really need to read the article. What you contend here is the heart of
the article's argument. Ever hear of the chargemaster? Neither had I. What you suggest
above makes a lot of sense with the exception of it's impossible to actually do what
you suggest.
 
Many doctor & other testing accept a contracted amount from you insurance company that is a lot less than the billed amount is.

My back surgery had 2 rods, 6 screws & 2 bmp bone graph protein that cosy over $25,000 bucks billed....waiting to see what insurance actually
pays them but the person with no insurance gets screwed real bad getting stuck with 100% of the billed cost.

Same with 2,200 buck for 2 days in a hospital room & that is just for the room as everything else is additional.

Can't blame the new doctors who come out of med school owing 250 to 400 grand either as they have 8 years for a regular doctor or 11 to 12 for a
speciality & huge loan payments.
 
I will try and get around to reading it. My wife is a health broker. I dont sell health insurance but do everything else, DI, life etc. So we get so much info constantly that you get tired of reading all of it.......For one reason, what you read today has been revised from two weeks ago (and thats not an exaggeration). March 1, letters were to go out from every employer to all their employees about the exchanges. Well obviously they that did not happen. Now the govt is saying that those will probably go out toward the end of summer with no date. The exchange plans are to be out for Oct. 1....they dont even have them out yet. Just get the bronze plan out in my opinion, because no one will be able to afford anything higher than that any way.
 
sturd said:
So, you didn't bother to read the whole thing, eh?

No problem here. Just seems disingenuous to claim something with no absolutely no fact to back it
up.
Click to expand...

LOL I'll bet the real number is higher than that. When I come across someone who has insurance it's amazing how they don't have a "I deserve/entitlement for nothing" mindset.

Yea you're right. No fact at all. I do it first hand 40+ hours a week. Many do not pay for healthcare. Many patients scream: "I'm entitled to blah blah blah blahhhh" Sorry, nobody is entitled to anything.

I hang 4-7 bags of Precedex (and other drugs) a night. Google what that costs, you might vomit. And the s**t doesn't work.

And the amount of waste in healthcare is inevitable. You have to throw away equipment frequently and open up new to contain/spread infection. You can use the same electrical wire in a wall for years to deliver 'product'. You can only use IV tubing for 72 hours to deliver 'product' before you tear it down and string it back up.
 
Well, the reason I am up at 3:30 am is because of these types of issues as an employer.
One of many sleepless nights.

It makes me sick to think that I may have to one day put my employees on some substandard government health care.
(Does Obamacare cover that?)

I pay 100% now. I am not sure that I will be able to do that in 2 years from now.
My employees treat me great and I want to do the same back, but it is getting harder and harder.

MX049- I know a couple folks that have no health care. When they go to the hospital and say they have no insurance they actually negotiate a better deal than the insurance rate.

Just what I was told. maybe georgie has a little better info.
 
DD, I work with employers everyday and your in the SMALL minority that pay 100% of healthcare. Your employees should be greatful. Do you also provide DI, and life to them, or they do that voluntary?
 
sturd said:
Incredibly, no. Part of why I thought the article was so interesting, I didn't know
that either.

Not really pertinent to the tort reform issue but 'standard of care' is part of what
started the whole 'death panel' meme. I also learned this from the article. Never
knew where the heck that whole thing came from.
Click to expand...


Might want to do some more fact checking there sturd.

Rush just mentioned this 24,000 word monstrosity and Time during lunch today. lol!
 
GeorgiePorgie said:
I hang 4-7 bags of Precedex (and other drugs) a night. Google what that costs, you might vomit.
Click to expand...

I did and guess what. You can't get a cost to the patient, as detailed in the article I pointed to.
Wholesale cost seems to be around $55/200ug. Found an article in Critical Care Nurse that thinks
the cost for therapy for a 70kg patient ranges from $114 to $342. But that's cost, not what a patient pays.


GeorgiePorgie said:
You can use the same electrical wire in a wall for years to deliver 'product'. You can only use IV tubing for 72 hours to deliver 'product' before you tear it down and string it back up.
Click to expand...

The IV tubing manufacturer has tested and 72 hours is how long you can safely use the tubing and stay in the limits for
dosing the patient with stuff leaching out of the tubing. Some of the stuff leaching out is
bad, none of it is particularly good. When a leachate harms mouse fibroblasts or mutates
salmonella typhimurium, you sure as hell don't want to be dosing a kid with it. These tests
they certainly did to gain FDA approval to market the tubing.
 
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