My old thread that pertains to the "interesting read" thread

john lilly

PR Addict
I just got off the phone with a guy who raced at East Bend and he was sharing with me that the total race time for all the bikes was 3.5 hrs and they were all done and heading home. He said they always raced two classes at a time and there were no 4 wheelers/quads, just a little more info.. Also, he said the classes were decent size. So here's my question for the track owners and each organization; what could you do differently to speed up the race day (actual time spend at the track)? Btw, I think the enormous amount of time spent at the track is one of the biggest topics of conversation (frustration) that I hear being discussed at the track. People are getting tired of spending 12 hours at the track for 20 to 40 minutes of actual race time. Btw, this is not any type of bash session, actually to the contrary, I would like to see how many good ideas that we can come up with to see how we could maximize our time and efforts and yet minimize the actual time spend at the track. So, here are a couple of my thoughts:
1. Break the racing into superminis and below, starting at 9am. Two classes for almost every gate and if three groups could go at once and be safe by MX standards then let it rip. Then the next class comes at say noon and that would consist of 125's up to 450 A riders. Again group them with two class and two gate drops if possible. Then say at 3:00 pm the quad riders show up and finish up the day.
I think by doing this there would be less track prep and less bitching between the two groups. For example how the bike riders say the quad riders break down the ruts and vise versa.
Here again this is where transponders would help keep everything straight while there may be 1,2 or 3 classes out on the track at once.
Also, for the people that want to hang out there all day they could still do this but for those of us who would like to get in and get out because we have other things we need to get done outside of mx, this would be a welcome change.
I think you would also get some people who would like to come and watch a friend or family member race but don't want to stay for 12 hours to see 40 minutes of track time but if you could sell them that they will see their friend race within a 3 hour window, you might get more people to come through your gates. I can personally say that my wife and daughter would show up more if the race day was cut down. More people through the gate equals more money for the track owners and happier riders, which makes for more pleasant people and probably more complements about the staff, the track and the promoters which gets people to come back more often and talk up how you do things right!!!!
 
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But people would not be able to race 3 classes! Simple answer. ELIMINATE the amount of classes! Way too many classes in todays motocross world.
Good point John250, the guy I was talking to did say that there were only 15 moto's.
 
Now putting multiple groups out with transponders is an idea that is being tried in California, and has peaked my interest in buying the mylaps system. Can it be implemented immediately? No. Can it be done? Yes. But timing is the issue, as with everything. I can see within the next 5-7 years transponders becoming standard equipment. The only major issue is overcoming the problem of people racing with other groups, this is a major taboo. For example; women and 40+. If we could race together safely, we could cut the race day by 1/3 of the time, given the transponder scenario, and grouped motos.
 
Unfortunately, MX is also a business. Track owners are reluctant to cut classes because that directly affects their pockets and we can't blame them for that. They have to make money in order for us to have places to race. If this were the 80s or 90s we wouldn't need all of these classes because more people raced. You could fill gates back then easily. If you cut classes now, you still wouldn't have enough riders to fill a gate. Perfect example is the GP's that Hershey pointed out. For the record, I love the idea but I just don't see it working. There is absolutely no way to keep everyone happy in this sport, or any other sport for that matter. So my solution to this all along has been this; Each track (or just a few) have 1 race per year that is different than their normal MX event. A one-off event that is a "Throwback" race. By that, I mean a race in which there are limited classes. For Example, 50s (separate pee wee track), 65s, 85s, 2-Stroke, 250, and 450. Practice starts at 8:30, racing at 11 or so. 18 minutes (15 for peewees) plus 1-Lap Motos (so allocate 20-25 minutes per class per moto). Little bit shorter day, but you also get 40 minutes of racing time, plus however many minutes of practice you get. If there are more than 40 in one class, run two qualifiers as a first moto, then an LCQ that way everyone still gets two motos (the LCQ would have to be a quick 4-5 lapper). It's a one time a year race and it gives all of us a chance to put our money where our mouths are, which I guarantee most of us won't. But it's a thought. I know I'd be there.
 
A one time event is all I have ever been asking for. Just to see if it works. Without conducting the experiment it is all specialism.
50
65
Mini Jr
Mini Sr.
Schoolboy
250
450
30+
40+
Pro
B
C

Its not a GP. Its a motocross. Yes GP's seem like the answer since you are there for a short period of time and lots of set time BUT, Its not a motocross. No way im I sending my son out on a 50, on a GP course where I cant see him. Just not going to happen. I don't like flying though a wooded section just a foot away from a giant tree. GP's are not the answer.
If 80 people show up and all leave upset, fine, it did not work. Move on to the next idea. BUT if 80 show up and leave happy, then 200 show up the next time, 400, 800.... You never know until you try.
I guess all I'm say is... give peace a chance.
Call it retro day if you want, (I would call it real motocross) riders can wear old gear and everyone on a 2 stroke big bike get2 1/2 off the signup. 15 min motos and everyone goes home happy and tired.

Wait, Is it groundhog day?
 
KX514, I agree with you about this being a business and these tracks do need to make "money" for them to stay around and my son and I do our part in supporting the local mx tracks. However, there are a number of people/riders, families who have made a decision to not support the local race scene anymore because of the extremely long days and limited track time at these races (I personally know some). So, when we are talking about these track owners making money, I whole heartedly support them but some times doing the same old thing gets long in the tooth for some, and these riders just disappear and so does their money. So, are they really making more money or are they actually losing money and just have't identified why or how. Another words, if it isn't tracked or quantified then, they really don't know. What, I am doing here is trying to give the track owners some feed back from the grumblings of the customer (I have heard this complaint for years). I don't understand why things couldn't be separated, even if it isn't they way I described in my first paragraph then why not split the day between bikes and quads. This would still cut down on the time spent at the track yet still let them run all the classes and make their money. Nothing against quad riders but I don't know any of them, don't watch them and honestly it is a complete waste of time for me. I don't think this is brain surgery, I think, it is that people are afraid to change because of the unknown result. If it doesn't work we could always go back to the way it was but from the people I talk to and I talk to a lot of people, anything that would reduce the time we have to spend on race day would be a welcome change. Don't get me wrong, I love MX but I do have a life outside of MX and I know others do as well. BTW, I know you can't make everyone happy but you can always try!!!
 
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What if you threw alot of the traditional stuff right out the window, and went by ages?

4-6 (beginner 50cc only), 7-9, 10-15, 16-20, 20-29, 30-39, 40-49, 50+

Maybe have two machine (sizes) choices for each. That way a parent can chose the machine that best fits their kids height and weight. And adults can race whatever they're comfortable with; 250 or 450, or even 125/250.

1 decent practice 15min, and 2 fifteen minute motos. Done.
 
A one time event is all I have ever been asking for. Just to see if it works. Without conducting the experiment it is all specialism.
50
65
Mini Jr
Mini Sr.
Schoolboy
250
450
30+
40+
Pro
B
C

Its not a GP. Its a motocross. Yes GP's seem like the answer since you are there for a short period of time and lots of set time BUT, Its not a motocross. No way im I sending my son out on a 50, on a GP course where I cant see him. Just not going to happen. I don't like flying though a wooded section just a foot away from a giant tree. GP's are not the answer.
If 80 people show up and all leave upset, fine, it did not work. Move on to the next idea. BUT if 80 show up and leave happy, then 200 show up the next time, 400, 800.... You never know until you try.
I guess all I'm say is... give peace a chance.
Call it retro day if you want, (I would call it real motocross) riders can wear old gear and everyone on a 2 stroke big bike get2 1/2 off the signup. 15 min motos and everyone goes home happy and tired.

Wait, Is it groundhog day?
CK1racerx, you are a genius... my son doesn't want a GP race and neither do I for the reasons you stated. My son wants MX!!!! What you said is exactly the type of suggestion I am looking for, not the reasons why we can't do it but why we can!!!!!
 
KX514, I agree with you about this being a business and these tracks do need to make "money" for them to stay around and my son and I do our part in supporting the local mx tracks. However, there are a number of people/riders, families who have made a decision to not support the local race scene anymore because of the extremely long days and limited track time at these races (I personally know some). So, when we are talking about these track owners making money, I whole heartedly support them but some times doing the same old thing gets long in the tooth for some, and these riders just disappear and so does their money. So, are they really making more money or are they actually losing money and just have't identified why or how. Another words, if it isn't tracked or quantified then, they really don't know. What, I am doing here is trying to give the track owners some feed back from the grumblings of the customer (I have heard this complaint for years). I don't understand why things couldn't be separated, even if it isn't they way I described in my first paragraph then why not split the day between bikes and quads. This would still cut down on the time spent at the track yet still let them run all the classes and make their money. Nothing against quad riders but I don't know any of them, don't watch them and honestly it is a complete waste of time for me. I don't think this is brain surgery, I think, it is that people are afraid to change because of the unknown result. If it doesn't work we could always go back to the way it was but from the people I talk to and I talk to a lot of people, anything that would reduce the time we have to spend on race day would be a welcomed change. Don't get me wrong, I love MX but I do have a life outside of MX and I know others do as well. BTW, I know you can't make everyone happy but you can always try!!!

Excellent points and I totally support it. It's worth a shot. I kind of hi-jacked your thread. There are ways that track owners could attempt to shorten the day and make it easier on us. And to your point, maybe it wouldn't be a home run at first, but it's possible that over time people would come back to racing. It's all a gamble.
 
What if you threw alot of the traditional stuff right out the window, and went by ages?

4-6 (beginner 50cc only), 7-9, 10-15, 16-20, 20-29, 30-39, 40-49, 50+

Maybe have two machine (sizes) choices for each. That way a parent can chose the machine that best fits their kids height and weight. And adults can race whatever they're comfortable with; 250 or 450, or even 125/250.

1 decent practice 15min, and 2 fifteen minute motos. Done.

I just wish there was a "LOVE" option instead of "like"
 
A one time event is all I have ever been asking for. Just to see if it works. Without conducting the experiment it is all specialism.

My speculation:
The one time event will have 60 racers show up. They will all say it was a great time, and wonder why more people didn't show up. Knox will then get on here talking about the need for a second time event to try it again.

Also, with 12 classes you are limiting yourself to a total of 480 racers if they all have full gates. If 800 racers show up, you are right back where you all say you don't want to be because of all the heat races and LCQs that would be needed to limit the classes back down to 40.
 
My speculation:
The one time event will have 60 racers show up. They will all say it was a great time, and wonder why more people didn't show up. Knox will then get on here talking about the need for a second time event to try it again.

Also, with 12 classes you are limiting yourself to a total of 480 racers if they all have full gates. If 800 racers show up, you are right back where you all say you don't want to be because of all the heat races and LCQs that would be needed to limit the classes back down to 40.
1. Darn right I would ask for a second, third, fourth...forever. I am persistent. (Nice word for d@#khead)
2. I am pretty sure EVERY track / promoter would be more then happy with 480 racers at each event. And I am pretty sure no riders would complain if 800 show up and a couples hours had to be added for qualifiers. I know I wouldn't and I complain about everything.
 
A one time event can work if promoted properly. However I believe Pit .... oh sorry I was being retro there for a second .... I mean Vet261 , is right. It will take a few races to take hold and go.

But what I really smell is a "KING OF THE CLIFF" race this year!
 
A one time event can work if promoted properly. However I believe Pit .... oh sorry I was being retro there for a second .... I mean Vet261 , is right. It will take a few races to take hold and go.

But what I really smell is a "KING OF THE CLIFF" race this year!

You will take the GP and like it! ha ha, the full blown KOC might need another year. i mean we are just buying the system in the spring. We need to work out the bugs. Perhaps we will do a one off, smaller dry run of the KOC on a practice day this fall?
 
A one time event is all I have ever been asking for. Just to see if it works. Without conducting the experiment it is all specialism.
50
65
Mini Jr
Mini Sr.
Schoolboy
250
450
30+
40+
Pro
B
C

I suggested a similar class structure a long time ago. I think I had a total of 16 classes, and included quads! Never gonna happen. Because little jimmy needs to race 3 classes, and win a couple of trophies.

JO, your structure by age is not good. Too many 10 year old 85 riders that don't belong in with a 15 year old kid on a 125 or 250F. That's why Knox's structure is better.

Both of you did NOT include a women's class either. So I get bonus points, at least my class structure included women. See I do care about all the riders!
 
You will take the GP and like it! ha ha, the full blown KOC might need another year. i mean we are just buying the system in the spring. We need to work out the bugs. Perhaps we will do a one off, smaller dry run of the KOC on a practice day this fall?
I will love it, you know that! The 125 is ready to sing at the 2015 BC GP race for sure!
 
I suggested a similar class structure a long time ago. I think I had a total of 16 classes, and included quads! Never gonna happen. Because little jimmy needs to race 3 classes, and win a couple of trophies.

JO, your structure by age is not good. Too many 10 year old 85 riders that don't belong in with a 15 year old kid on a 125 or 250F. That's why Knox's structure is better.

Both of you did NOT include a women's class either. So I get bonus points, at least my class structure included women. See I do care about all the riders!
Eff the women! Oh....wait a minute, we already do!!!!! ;)
 
I suggested a similar class structure a long time ago. I think I had a total of 16 classes, and included quads! Never gonna happen. Because little jimmy needs to race 3 classes, and win a couple of trophies.

JO, your structure by age is not good. Too many 10 year old 85 riders that don't belong in with a 15 year old kid on a 125 or 250F. That's why Knox's structure is better.

Both of you did NOT include a women's class either. So I get bonus points, at least my class structure included women. See I do care about all the riders!

arggggghhhhh the humanity. Ok. 4-7 50cc, 8-9 (65cc),10-13 (85/supermini), 14-20 or 19 (125cc and 250cc 4smoke) better?
 
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