Should we hit the emergency button??

BriarcliffMx

BriarcliffMx

PR Founding Father
looking at the numbers, deep thinking ( yeah way deeper than you dude), not that any of this nonesense is new, but we definitely need a way to compete with the wildly popular stick and ball sports. Now one caveat, with the present class structure and current pricing structure (yes real good ideas here, no softballs) what can we do to encourage more new riders and retain current riders? Right now currently we offer $10 per race in Rocky Mountain bucks, and yes I did receive all of mine for me and all of my kids, so what else do we got? Let's hear it. All Ohio races should be nearly 400-500 entries, battle races are, why not more??
 
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The demographics have changed. Immensely.

This has been a hot topic everywhere on FB and on the web in different districts.

1). We need newbie friendly tracks. The big triples have to go to the pros. They need to go to SX, AX and outdoors. Not at the grassroots level.

The only people coming into the sport is 2nd and 3rd generation riders. If you never been to a race and go the first time, the C class is very daunting. Your not going to participate if this is "C" class with jumps they do. Furthermore, my fiance worked at ClubMX till recently. C riders ride with Brayton, Alessi and Barcia. At ClubMX sometimes That's not C anymore. Sorry. I know by the rules it is, but that's not going to bring people into racing. The "C" class problem is the single biggest problem and why people are gravitation to Woods racing.


2) The bikes aren't to expensive for what you get. People are buying those side by sides at $20k a pop, so its not a money issue as much as a perceived money issue. We have $3-4 K bikes! They are called "used" bikes. A 2012 450 is competitive in today's racing , this is not the 70's where every 6 months , the technology of the bikes was progressing very, very rapidly.

We need to break this mentality that everyone needs the latest greatest steed or you can't race and be competitive. Otherwise all the perceived cost of racing will be it's unaffordable.


3) We need to change the mindset of the sport. At this time, I believe the mentality is to get to Loretta's. I see it here in this very site almost everyday. There is not enough racers to support local raving if everyone is chasing Loretta's

4) The tracks and dealerships need to work together, but I'm not sure that can work into today's business model. What do I mean? Well, the gift cards compete with the local dealerships, and the local dealerships could care less. I get it. Amazon and the like is the way of the future. When all the old farts die, there will be no small hardware stores or motorcycle stores. We buy off the internet for all retail stuff. So this would be a hard obstacle to overcome. Stick and mortar stores are going away and all jobs will be serviced based. Retail will be push a button and have it delivered. Hell, even corporate Yamaha now competes with their own dealer network selling patts, so I'm open to ideas here how we get a local shop involved.

5). Local pros need to donate some time to help new riders learn the basics of riding. Like setting up bike, simple turns, jumping etc. and the promoters need to be involved with the dealers on this. Everyone needs to donate some time, otherwise nobody is gonna show up that is new to the sport.


6). The philosophy of " It's motocross- suck it up pumpkin!" has to go. I know, I grew up with it too, but today with insurance rates and injuries costing so much, we are not going to get new blood. It's a matter of time to have a major injury. People on the outside think it's crazy to risk it all for what we get.

Sorry. Christmas eve and I'm out at my family party. Done on my iPhone. I have more to say on the subject, but that's another time.

Sorry about the Grammer, or lack of it.
 
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This is a thread that will or could go on forever! Just a couple quick facts. Cost......yes, it is very expensive by the time you get everything you need. If your going to race, realistically, your probably talking $5k minimum investment to get into the sport at a low level. Yes, I know it can be done cheaper, must that is a good middle of the road number. Stick and ball sports, while much more expensive than 20 years ago, still don't have that upfront investment.

The tracks. Big leaps are not realistic for newbies. And most tracks C class, the top 10 guys are making those leaps Want to get sandbaggers out of the C class? Put some restrictions on bigger jumps on the track......Malvern uphill (no triple), BC (no down siding the finish line), CTMX no jumping their big double. Do it on practice days to learn and prefect your skills. No cool as hell C class rider wants his chick and posse to see him rolling jumps. Nothing cool about that, they will move up to B class. And newbies wont feel so out of place in the C class on race day.

Injuries. Injuries have seemed to get worse and more serious than they were 10 or 20 years ago. Many parents are not willing to put their kids in that situation these days. Helicopter parents, and snow flakes are against this and tearing up mother earth.

Tracks need to work together. Said it many times, but open practice is killing races. Used to be if we wanted to ride on some of our favorite tracks, we could only do it if we signed up to race. There were no practice days. Now days, these pansies coming up all think they need 100 laps on a track before they can race on it. Used to be we showed up, got four laps of practice and raced. And the only time you got those 4 laps was on scheduled race days.
 
GeorgiePorgie said:
Need more skilled labors and tradesman. They're who race. Those jobs are gone and so are the racers.
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There is truth to that. Dayton and surrounding areas thrived when it was a GM town, and had all the GM and Delphi plants, and all the companies doing business for them. Those were awesome paying jobs, with lots of OT. As someone that gets into a lot of manufacturing plants for work, they do not pay near what those jobs paid 25 years ago. So the money has dried up for things like racing motorcycles and the local car tracks are way down on numbers also.
 
This could get interesting. Thus far, the only thing I completely disagree on is two of the three jumps John listed. 50cc riders and pit bike riders can hit that uphill triple. I've done it in 1st gear on a 450. The finish at BC has seemed to shrink with time and it's an easy table top. Btw, I've even hit both on a quad.. lol..

Certain jumps yes. But neither of those two. Can't comment on CT's double as I haven't ridden it. There aren't any real booters anymore that I can think of. It's not big jumps that show skill, it's the outa the corner seat bounce into a rythem requiring timing that shows skill. I've known dudes who were flat at slow at racing but had sacks big enough to hit some big gaps.

End rant about jumps. Lol

Merry CHRISTmas.
 
honda907 said:
The demographics have changed. Immensely.

This has been a hot topic everywhere on FB and the Webbin different districts.

1). We need newbie friendly tracks. The big triples have to go to the pros. They need to go to SX, AX and outdoors. Not at the grassroots level.

The only people coming into the sport is 2nd and 3rd generation riders. If you never been to a race and go the first time, the C class is very daunting. Your not going to participate if this is "C" class with jumps they do. Furthermore, my fiance worked at ClubMX till recently. C riders ride with Brayton, Alessi and Barcia. At ClubMX sometimes That's not C anymore. Sorry. I know by the rules it is, but that's not going to bring people into racing. The "C" class problem is the single biggest problem and why people are gravitation to Woods racing.


2) The bikes aren't to expensive for what you get. People are buying those side by sides at $20k a pop, so its not a money issue as much as a perceived money issue. We have $3-4 K bikes They are used bikes. A 2012 450 is competitive in today's racing , this is not the 70's where every 6 months , the technology of the bikes was progressing very, very rapidly.

We need to break this mentality that everyone needs the latest greatest steed or you can't race and be competitive. Otherwise all the perceived cost of racing will be it's unaffordable.


3) We need to change the mindset of the sport. At this time, I believe the mentality is to get to Loretta's. I see it here in this very site almost everyday. There is not enough racers to support local raving if everyone is chasing Loretta's

4) The tracks and dealerships need to work together, but I'm not sure that can work into today's business model. What do I mean? Well, the gift cards compete with the local dealerships, and the local dealerships could care less. I get it. Amazon and the like is the way of the future. When all the old farts die, there will be no small hardware stores or motorcycle stores. We buy off the internet for all retail stuff. So this would be a hard obstacle to overcome. Stick and mortar stores are going away and all jobs will be serviced based. Retail will be push a button and have it delivered. Hell, even corporate Yamaha now competes with their own dealer network selling patts, so I'm open to ideas here how we get a local shop involved.

5). Local pros need to donate some time to help new riders learn the basics of riding. Like setting up bike, simple turns, jumping etc. and the promoters need to be involved with the dealers on this. Everyone needs to donate some time, otherwise nobodies gonna show up that is new to the sport.


6). The philosophy of " It's motocross- suck it up pumpkin!" has to go. I know, I grew up with it too, but today with insurance rates and injuries costing so much, we are not going to get new blood. It's a matter of time to have a major injury. People on the outside think it's crazy to risk it all for what we get.

Sorry. Christmas eve and I'm out at my family party. Done on my iPhone. I have more to say on the subject, but that's another time.

Sorry about the Grammer, or lack of it.
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This hit the nail on the head. Lots of good points. Local shops don't stand a chance against retailers. I always try to support the local guys that have always been there to help me. Unless it's a huge price difference, I'll spend a few extra bucks to pick up a part at a shop.

Pros doing some local charity work. There's an idea. I remember in the early 2000s there were a lot more local pros coming back and putting on small schools. I'm glad to see Levi doing some classes locally but there are other local guys that could do something. I always attended Trevor vines schools and he does a good job with classes.

What john250 said about jobs not being what they were is a huge part too. Jobs just don't pay what they used to. Injuries are more serious and much more costly. Insurance rates, hospital trips, all of it is more expensive on top of employers not being too cool with you taking time off work for getting hurt on your dirtbike.
 
Every winter we see a lot of new family's that have never been to a track. In my opinion the bigger the event the more intimidating it is. New families are not even sure what to do when they arrive at a track. I try hard to stand out front while people are arriving for an indoor race just to make sure they know where to go and how things go. Now with that being said how do you think a family new to MX would feel pulling in the cliff on battle weekend? The big events are awesome for seasoned riders but will probably never attract a new rider
 

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I can see how it could be overwhelming. Kids are overwhelming enough. Then to not have any experience at a race and try to guide your little one to practice, staging area etc.... takes a lot of commitment if you've never raced before.
 
GeorgiePorgie said:
I can see how it could be overwhelming. Kids are overwhelming enough. Then to not have any experience at a race and try to guide your little one to practice, staging area etc.... takes a lot of commitment if you've never raced before.
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You can buy stick and ball equipment cheap. Sign up 1 time for a season of that kind of sport for about what it cost to sign up for one race.
 
The stick and ball sports are all off as well. Participation is 30-50 % off per capita compared to 20 years ago. Many reasons for this from money, time , stigma, other commitments, to people just not socializing with others ( not knowing your next door neighbor) and some parents just don't the like competitor nature of sports and having their child fail

So families don't do stick and ball like they did. Also, our family businesses do local advertising on cable TV and the audience is way down for football this year, just like last year ( we need this data so we can negotiate ad contracts)

Kids don't go outside. They don't play outside. Look at your parks. Kids are NEVER there by themselves. Parents are always there. That's just a fundamental shift in our society.

Parents are worried about Safty. That's why kids don't go outside and play! Many of you grew up riding small minibikes like me in some abondond pit and rode around all day long without a helmet all by yourself with your buddies. That won't happen ever today.

The young people today don't care about riding/racing or sports in general. They want the newest phone, a new car, travel, and hanging at coffee houses. They don't commit to relationships , other than Verizon and Toyota payments. These people aren't going to ride a dirt bike. That's something their dad did and dad isn't cool.

So we need to entice families to go out to the local track. There are a number of problems here

1). People don't even know a local track exhists. Outside of hardcore people, people don't know tracks exhist locally. Shops not supporting it has a lot to do with it. Nothing in the local paper. And the tracks don't use social media ( which is the only way to grow it) to get the word out. Like goggle ads and the like


2) as said earlier, when you get new families and participants, they don't know the signup procedure , what to bring, and what to expect. Maybe we need "FOSTER" patents at the races? The only growth today is 2nd and 3rd generation riders. When my family ( 6 of us) stop riding, who's going to fill that void, hmmm????

3) The danger aspect really needs to be looked at. That is the single biggest obstacle in attracting riders and racers. Safty really needs to be addressed. Pee wee football is down 50% in my town because of the Safty issue. It is real. It's not going away. Certain people are never going to ride because of Safty, but if it is minimized on the local level, it could grow

4) I see some tracks that should be like practice facilities in that they are so technical, you would need a pro card to get on them, yet novices are out there. Everyone DOESNT know there limit. Dungey makes it look easy blitzing the whoops. That's his job!! I can assure you nobody can do it like him at the local level. So don't build that type of obstacle if you want to have the sport survive. Your just going to hurt your revenue stream . Your local guys that want to do that need to go to the pro races and pro card required tracks and hit that stuff. Your building a track for 20% of your clients. Your alienating a large percentage of riders who now do GP's, haresrambles, GNCC, etc.

6) get the AMA to put out a press kit for the tracks. They do it for participants that go to Loretta Lynn's. The AMA had not done a good job in promoting motorcycle riding off road on my opinion. I don't want to even go here about the AMA and its failures today.


Ok. Back to my family.

Merry Christmas everyone !!
 
Our society has changed do much, I'm not sure there is an easy answer. It is a very daunting problem. I'm just throwing out things that may help, and things I see that will be tough to overcome.

Money, time, commitments and social stigma has to be all overcome. Motocross had a tough road to go at the moment
 
Can the OMA enforce the C class rule more? Do it by lap times in practice, if your practice lap times are as fast as an average B rider then make them move up to the next class. I'm not sure what equipment or technology a track would need to do this but I think OMA officials cracking down on sandbaggers makes it fair, more fun, and less intimidating. Axell Hodges won the C class at lorettas and he only makes a couple hundred thousand a year on a factory bike and practices with McGrath. C class needs to be policed.


Sent from my iPhone using PitRacer mobile app
 
The battle series is a great bridge to reality. Fuller gates with both the sandbaghers and the true beginners. Once you get to lorettas stage just suck it up and don't worry about being called a sandbagger. There will be 5 classes of them.

In all honesty the cra catered to more of the true beginner crowd and got them motivated to race. And people went on from there.


I asked my dad how he afforded all the racing and he said "overtime". He was a union electrician for many year before he took a maintenance superintendent position at his plant. And he said the base 40 hourly pay paid for us to live. And overtime paid for us to race. But all I wanted to do was race. My little brother wants to do every hobby. Snowboarding, bicycles, football, the kids just want to do everything and are worried about how they look. I didn't care how I looked. I just B wanted to ride all the time and could care less about anything else.

Now not a lot of people going into trades or landing jobs that allow them to work a ton of overtime.

907 i gotta agree with him about the coffee shops and what not. People my age all they wanna do is work 30 hours a week. Enough to pay their apartment, utilities, coffee shop and craft beer restaurant tabs. People complain about the cost of racing but gondowntown Cleveland tona restaraunt and try to get out of there for less than 75-100 for two people. THey don't complain about that. But look at me like I'm crazy when I tell them a new bike cost $7-10,000.

70 visits out to eat at $100 a pop is 7,000. But they don't scratch their head for that!! And people my age are doing that every weekend. They go out to eat 3x a week. My dad used to take me practice 3x a week.
 
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Exactly Georgie Porgie! The mentality has changed for people under 25! It's a tough task, and they have been told all their life that this is the cool thing to do, just like playing outside was a cool thing to do in my lifetime......

It's gonna be tough to grow the sport. Whoever comes up with the solution should be a millionaire, cause every form of outdoor activity is down......
 
I see the fair races as a gateway to normal Mx......Its a place to start, much like open riding or practice. Can we do anything with Faircross? I think in the end we need to get people excited about it. Maybe we could pump premix exhaust into the spectator areas?? ha ha, not, but I would dig it. Maybe theres some marketing that could be done. Perhaps parking lot demos at schools?
 
How many parents buy their kid a bike and they never ride it. It's a big expense just to try. If you want to get more kids involved they need to be able to go somewhere and rent an xr50, 80 or 100 and ride for a few hours. Have a stable of about 5-10 bikes to rent and i think they would be running all day. Designate a small area with a lesson and bingo the kid is hooked. For less than 10 grand you may be able to generate another income source. Word would get out then your taking reservations.
 
Since it's Christmas I will gift you with some marketing tips which normally put food on my table.
The most important thing to consider is that MX is no different than a cult. So when you bring in new people you have to be very careful until you set the hook.
Make sure the first family they meet isn't Timmy Toterhome with a fleet of Katooms, golf cart and Razor. Hide the expense of the sport. Make sure they understand that it's only as expensive as they want it to be.
Push the family friendly atmosphere. Explain how families go to the tracks and camp together on the weekends. If they have young kids don't introduce them to a Crazy mini parent like Tony Alissi or Dave Smith right off the bat.
Tracks try to collect some used gear to help out the new racer. Let it be known during races that for anyone getting into our Cult that you have gear to help get them started. Also offer a free race to newcomers. Have them sign up at the race they are spectating at and e-mail them a free entry.
OK I don't want to overload anyone. That's all for now.
 
It’s an interesting dilemma, the real question is “how do you attract new riders who desire to experience MX as a choice”. Kids today have too many choices and parents become focused on little Johnny becoming the next superstar and think he will get a full ride scholarship to a big school. Just ask any parent whose kids are on “travel teams”. Also we need to create a path to riders whose family are not riders, and that’s not an easy path.

I had the opportunity to ride at quite a variety of tracks this year. After putting on over 16K miles on and visiting 17 facilities in 12 states I can really only think of one example that is viable.

Bob Jandebeur in Okmulgee OK, 40 miles south of Tulsa has a great model. He is growing the business, he is growing the local rider base, and he providing access to non-traditional riding families. So how, firstly this is Bob’s full time job and mission, he is a second generation Motorcycle dealer. His father now in his late 80’s was a road racer that had multiple victories at the highest level including Daytona. Having closed the dealership he has now built a first class facility with multiple options. He has a medium sized track adjacent to the clubhouse, this is fully lit and used both days and nights. He has a very high quality MX track that is groomed and open for practice daily, and also holds both regional and local races. And this year he partnered with former World Champion Trampas Parker to build a European style natural MX track at the rear of the property, and is currently building a cross county track.

But he key to Bob’s success is the front end, he rents bikes, from PW50’s, TTR’s and entry level MX bikes. He also services his, and customer’s bikes on premise. He has a nice clubhouse with proper bathrooms and showers, something that family’s desire. But his passion is teaching kids to ride, from their first experience on a motorcycle to understanding the basics of MX.

So a local kid and his family can sign up for a couple of lessons, rent a bike, and for a few hundred dollars and a couple of afternoons they can decide if they want to get more involved in MX. And in fact many of the family’s I saw on a nice Saturday afternoon this October were not the typical crowd. They were driving Lexus’s and SUV’s, not pick-ups and toy haulers. They had made a choice to try MX as a potential activity for their son/daughter. Some may decide it’s not for them, but I’m sure a number will get the disease and jump in with both feet.

https://www.facebook.com/JTeamracer
 
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