Ahh, the "C-class" thread

I've been to some tracks that classify your skill level by your lap times. Maybe a system like that would work?
 
Jon16 said:
I've been to some tracks that classify your skill level by your lap times. Maybe a system like that would work?
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The C rider advancement process is more complicated and has more loopholes than the US tax code! But that would be a good way to go. If tracks did that across the board then there would be no way for riders to sandbag year after year.

Or, I've seen guys sit at the finish and DNF to keep their RPV artificially low. If they added a clause where your RPV is >=14 with 1 or more DNF you automatically get bumped then that could be solved.

But like I stressed in earlier posts I'm not talking about Vet classes. I'm talking about the kids who run Schoolboy, Supermini and 250C on the same night. You're not allowed to do that. It's not fair to the true Novice C riders. From what I can see from announcing usually 7th place is the first true C rider....The guys in top 5 all throw whips, have great style and have the ability to rip a tear-off in mid-air. Those are NOT NOVICE capabilities. I don't see Vet 30 C riders doing this, EVER. I see them out there having a good time with riders of their own skill level. Vet C is the truest C class you can get.
 
Its definately a frustrating topic....I never got started on Minis and i started riding at 17 on a TTR125 for about 10 months then went up to a KX125 n started riding tracks and my first year of racing I definately rode my own race....and got lapped by half the class. But it seems every year that I plan to move up and never can cuz I cant break mid pack of C class....i swear every year the C Class gets harder and I get better but yet still stay in the same place... Granted i took a year off 2 summers ago...still.... its redic I remember jumps i could never do...and no one else but top 3 in C class did...and now that im doing just about all the main jumps minus triples thus far it seems like everyone else in the C class is doing them too.....and now the top 5 or so in C class do all the big triples! WTF ever happend to getting DQ'd if you were a C rider and did any of the triples....people tell me when Im nervous about racing a new track of this jump and that jump are safe...but theres one big double or triple or 2 of em C riders arnt allowed to do....and im like ok that sounds good! should be equal playing fields then....NOPE i get there and what happend....top 5-8 in C Class are out there doing em n scrubbin or whippin em....Really????? thats the kinda **** that pisses me off!!! Just my 2 cents tho
 
Tom said:
Try a thumb throttle for a quad. I know a guy with the same thing and he loves it.
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Had this discussion with JDAWG in the parking lot once. He explained that he basically uses his thumb to clamp (against / towards his palm) to hang on. SOOO Ix-nay on the thumb throttle.
Ive seen him ride though. He freekin rips for a big boy on a buck and a quarter bike. Then add the Nerve thing in there with his Right arm. Pretty Amazing I think.
I mentioned once he should try the Xgames races. As I recall in the past a guy missing a Pinky finger rode and did well maybe won, another guy had a prosthetic leg and did pretty well also despite the problems he had with it during the race. Now I'm not not bashing but "I think the Pinky thing seems like a stretch". I think Jdawg would do well.
In any case Go Jdawg. GET -R- DONE!
 
Just bounce up to B. There not much faster than the sandbagging C riders. They're smarter for sure...
italionstalionmx said:
Its definately a frustrating topic....I never got started on Minis and i started riding at 17 on a TTR125 for about 10 months then went up to a KX125 n started riding tracks and my first year of racing I definately rode my own race....and got lapped by half the class. But it seems every year that I plan to move up and never can cuz I cant break mid pack of C class....i swear every year the C Class gets harder and I get better but yet still stay in the same place... Granted i took a year off 2 summers ago...still.... its redic I remember jumps i could never do...and no one else but top 3 in C class did...and now that im doing just about all the main jumps minus triples thus far it seems like everyone else in the C class is doing them too.....and now the top 5 or so in C class do all the big triples! WTF ever happend to getting DQ'd if you were a C rider and did any of the triples....people tell me when Im nervous about racing a new track of this jump and that jump are safe...but theres one big double or triple or 2 of em C riders arnt allowed to do....and im like ok that sounds good! should be equal playing fields then....NOPE i get there and what happend....top 5-8 in C Class are out there doing em n scrubbin or whippin em....Really????? thats the kinda **** that pisses me off!!! Just my 2 cents tho
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GeorgiePorgie said:
For all the new arrivals to big bikes for this year, do remember that:

The following criteria are to be used when determining a rider’s eligibility for the C class:
1. *No rider is to be classified as a C rider if that rider had a RPV of 15 or higher the previous year in the C class or a 12-16 youth division. (*Ahem* Supermini *cough*)
2. No rider is to be classified as a C rider if that rider has ever been classified as an A or Expert rider.
3. No rider is to be classified as a C rider if that rider has qualified for the AMA Amateur Motocross Nationals in any previous year in any class.
4. No rider is to be classified as a C rider if that rider is receiving or has ever received any type of OEM factory support in any class.
5. If a rider does not have enough points paying finishes to calculate their RPV points or does not meet any of the above criteria, they may not participate in the C class if they have raced the C, Beginner or any Youth class above 12- years old prior to June 1, 2007. (AMA Rulebook, pg. 25).


Every year I announce and see so many familiar names that were once of Supermini listing in the 250C, 450C classes...C class is not for you, it's for true novices. Those who engage in this activity are cheating themselves, you will become a better rider in a better and more stable "B" class.

Best of luck in the 2011 Racing season!
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Donj't know where you got RULE NO.5 This is what I got from the 2011 AMA RULEBOOK

Based on your rule #5 you would flood the B class with lappers and unskilled riders and the B class would become a disaster and a haven for injuries "worse than the C class".
Your rule would move riders up based on time riding, rather than merit their skills.
On the other hand, I have seen riders who "consistently" finish 1st, 2nd, top five or top three and continue to remain in the C class because they only race 5 races so they won't be bumped up. And have been doing it for some time.
Personally, I don't understand. What's The POINT??? You can buy trophies for a couple bucks if thats all you want.

This is what I got from the 2011 AMA rulebook:
e. If a rider doesn't meet any of the above criteria, they may not participate in the C class if they have raced C or any youth class above 12 years old the previous two calendar years and have an RPV of 11.0 or higher.

Notice the "RPV of 11.0 or higher". This keeps the B class from ending up as stated above.

Your gonna get some old vet really upset at you if they go out and sign up for the B class based on your post. LOL
Thanks for the thread I hope the right people read this. Cause I get what you mean.
 
Yeah, the 5th rule was from 2009. I suppose I should taken the extra ten minutes to locate a 2011 rulebook. It's good they revised that, because it's next to impossible to enforce that, and really the rule really makes the B class C class (as you pointed out) if it was followed. However, general rule of thumb is for RPV, like I said it's like the Tax code...it's a complete headache.

Pretty much all I want to see is rider accountability to step up to the B class when they're supposed to. Nobody is watching from the sidelines saying: "Dag gum, that guy smoking everyone in the C class is haulin.'" It's more like "Sandbag....2nd comes around: Sandbag two, 3rd comes around....SAndbag three.....wait a minute or two...7th place: Oh there's a C rider! Too bad, that guy should be winning his Novice class."
 
Georgie,

Your right, I'm familiar with the RPV rule and how it works......... I was at the last race of the year in D12 at Spring Valley and needed to win or finish second to wrap up a win for the overall season........ but there were some people there from Canada that came down to race since the weather was so nice. I end up in battle of death for 2nd overall with a crazy canuck and just beat him by bike lengths at the line to win the season overall in my class. But if the other dude who smoked us would not have shown up........... I would have won and pointed out into the "A" class. I ended up in "B" forever at that point as I've never raced as much again and don't chase points anymore. I just ride for fun and run the Vet Classes now anyway, but I was within one position of moving up at one race!

Anyway, almost everywhere I go, Vet Classes are all together and it makes no difference, there are only a few where I run Vet B for Loretta's Qualifying and National and that's about it besides the Vet Races at Red Bud and High Point.
 
GeorgiePorgie said:
Pretty much all I want to see is rider accountability to step up to the B class when they're supposed to. Nobody is watching from the sidelines saying: "Dag gum, that guy smoking everyone in the C class is haulin.'" It's more like "Sandbag....2nd comes around: Sandbag two, 3rd comes around....SAndbag three.....wait a minute or two...7th place: Oh there's a C rider! Too bad, that guy should be winning his Novice class."
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LOL! Yeah, Exactly. I can see enjoying the spotlite for a little bit, but as you put it SANDBAGGING! There's No honor in being the greatest C class rider of all time for Three, Four, Five, consecutive years running. Not that there is anything wrong with being in the C class "If that is were you belong".
I guess the Upside is that since you have people causing a bottleneck in the advancement system it has created a very fast group of riders when they finally do start to win enough to advance "If they don't get discouraged first"
 
Another point to make is that the AMA recently has made changes to the advancement to try and basically eliminate this "Sandbagging" situation I think. If I am not mistaken before you had riders "dominating" in say the 250C class, then riding very poorly in another class such as OPEN C or Schoolboy to keep their RPV down intentionally or not???. This would allow a rider to win a series or Overall class for the year and still not be advanced. I am glad this was addressed.

Now it is based on any single class rather than your overall performance. HA HA HA all you Sandbaggers!!!
but now I think it is a little too Easy to advance per the RPV. I think the RPV should be a little higher, not much just a little for the RPV of 11.0 after two years Maybe an RPV of 12.5 would be better hear. A kid can get lucky in a few races, or when no one shows up. So with this rule an average C class rider can be forced to advance when they are not ready. or it could be like the TAX referance and my math is bad. LOL. of course this would be a textbook case for a rider to contest an advancment.
Hard to find a happy medium but I think this is way better than before and for most part most riders want to move up ASAP.
 
Its completely different at a Loretta's qualifier. Top ten at a qualifier in C class could beat the B class locally. The competition in the local area here is just more spaced out. Most times there are maybe 3 guys that can run the pace locally to qualify for a regional. I had a buddy in 250C last year he could wax everyone locally by a big margin, but his best finish at Loretta's was a 12th. The competition is just totally different. Yes, i understand the are sandbaggers, but on the actual amateur scene there really not. As far as doing big jumps? Anyone can do big jumps it's whether or not you have the nad's to do it! The only jumps that they shouldnt be able to do are ones say right out of a corner that barely anyone in the B class is doing.
 
I would say for those trying to qualify in the c class they should just race c for the qualifiers then. So when they go to local tracks race extra or college ect that would be more fair for the true c riders
 
I announced last night and if your boy was on a yamaha number /. Then he's not a C rider. Move it to B. Try for lorettas in B. The kid looks really comfortable on the bike. C class at lorettas is pointless, sandbag capital of the USA. And everyone knows it. Not only / but 014 was a B rider running C as well. There weren't any B riders signed up, everyone was in C.
 
So you and your son are screwing everyone here locally in the C class trying to gain confidence on the race track for your own benefit?? Hmm.. Move him to B class, your only robbing him of his full potential. No one cares about C class here, or at LL..
 
There is a big difference between the local "points chasers" in any skill level class and the national level rider caliber in the same class. The problem is that everyone is only looking at their own little area and what it means to them. If you are a "national" level amateur rider, be prepared to be protested, lambasted, and generally pushed around on forum boards and rider meetings with complaints about you being in the wrong class. They care about points and their finishing position in their own little world while you are there for practice and just looking to get some gate drops for bigger and better things.... the 2 worlds don't get along well. If you are legally by the rules a "C" rider and dreaming of Loretta Lynns in the "C" class....... keep your mouth shut and just do your thing and go to Loretta's and enjoy the big show.

Everyone needs to remember the most famous C class winner in Loretta Lynn's history -------> Jeremy McGrath. You may have heard of him before and realize that he didn't start racing until he was older but had some natural talent and skill on a motorcycle. He was a "C" rider right off the bat and won the "C" class. Of course he later moved up and did well on a motorcycle for himself if I remember correctly. The point being that you can be a "C" rider who just started and have MAD MOTOCROSS Skills that will carry you far, but we all had to start somewhere and that starting point is usually the "C" Class.
 
good choice of words robin.

good luck to your son making it to LL. i WISH i could still bein C and go to lorettas!!!
 
Hope no one gets too offended here, but having reported on CRA racing for a number of years (prior to moving out of state), I've seen many riders "stay in C to go to Lorretta Lynns", who were B or better everywhere. One went, finished in the 20s, and moved to the Money class when he got back, and did well in it (top 1-5 regularly). Heck, that same year, a kid from out of the country got caught racing C at LL, with results from racing A class in his country.

If cheating and sandbagging is so rife in that class, what is the glory in winning it?? What does that say for C class? It says it's being used for something it was never intended, which is why LL should get rid of it. IMHO
 
MxFreedom33 said:
So you and your son are screwing everyone here locally in the C class trying to gain confidence on the race track for your own benefit?? Hmm.. Move him to B class, your only robbing him of his full potential. No one cares about C class here, or at LL..
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Thats definately a bit harsh.....its the kids first race on a big bike....sit down man let them do what they are doing. I think thats a good plan that if they dont make it he bumps straight to B.... I know a couple of families that race C class....STILL...and every year their son runs top 3 but DNS one moto and they only race 2 or 3 events every year now and they got bumped back 2 or 3 years ago and protested...and now they just stay low since then and keep trying for Lorettas in C.....thats when u say give it up for crying out loud.... its bullsh** What #23_Racing is doin is legit and pretty fair to everyone in my opinion.... so settle down
 
mxpilot said:
Hope no one gets too offended here, but having reported on CRA racing for a number of years (prior to moving out of state), I've seen many riders "stay in C to go to Lorretta Lynns", who were B or better everywhere. One went, finished in the 20s, and moved to the Money class when he got back, and did well in it (top 1-5 regularly). Heck, that same year, a kid from out of the country got caught racing C at LL, with results from racing A class in his country.
If cheating and sandbagging is so rife in that class, what is the glory in winning it?? What does that say for C class? It says it's being used for something it was never intended, which is why LL should get rid of it. IMHO
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And as to what mxpilot had to say.......AMEN! they should get rid of C at Lorettas.... they sure dont support D class....and plenny of people in the big MX states race D class... Gettin Rid of C at LL would get rid of ALOT of sandbagging in C i think.
 
Scott, I want you to race at pyma. Your son looked the most comfortable, and since nobody runs B there, you might as well benefit by riding with more riders on C gate. I apologize if I offended you at all. But I hope to see you back at pyma this Friday so I have a smooth 14 yr old rider to talk about on the loud speakers. Riders like him make my job easier, so don't fret away. If you like the track then PLEASE come race with us at pyma.

I wasn't kidding when I said pyma has looked the best I've seen in years!
 
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