mooch
PR Elite
So...tell me, what exactly is my opinion?
Tyla Rattray
- Thread starter Original44
- Start date
So...tell me, what exactly is my opinion?
mooch
PR Elite
So it's already been PROVEN that neck braces are useless? A lot of folks have been waiting for that proof...can you share your testing documentation to back that up?
Keep in mind, I doubt if you know my opinion on this topic either.
barrington314
PR Elite
so what happens when joe racer still fractures (or worse) his neck while wearing a brace? and our sport is much different than that of auto racing. a "hans" is not like a mx neck brace. you are not falling on your head in auto racing.
mandating neck braces in motocross is risky business, and i hope that never happens. at least at this point in neck brace technology.
fmxpaul
PR Addict
I'm probably wrong when they told me WHICH section of the spinal cord controls your breathing. I pretty much chewed pain killers up like PEZ and pounded beers for a couple weeks before anything made sense. Regardless- I'm not sure if in my case, wearing it would have helped. I'm also uncertain that I feel comfortable getting on a bike without one this year. I just don't know. Hell, that's why I'm listening to you crazies. They must reduce the risk of becoming parylized. I'm just not sure.
GeorgiePorgie
PR Founding Father
Mooch, quote the whole response. (See below)
You said it yourself in the red....it can't be determined if they help people or not. I was just validating your statment, by saying my quote: I think it proves that the braces have no credible safety function. People are still getting hurt, no evidence to suggest its preventing injury.
Jason145
PR Addict
I had fractures to both, C6,C7 wearing a neck brace!!!!! So my point is people are still getting hurt wearing them and if i wasn't wearing one would my outcome been worse????? I don't know and nobody does!!
Jon16
PR Founding Father
I think thats part of the problem. There are too many ways to wreck to say if it would help/hurt you. BUT, I do believe that if tested, I bet it would show your percentage of getting hurt increases while wearing one. I'd like to see a study done of the number of riders with back/spine injurys before neck braces and after they came out. For myself, I know of 3 paralized people in NE Ohio within a year or 2 of each other. I bet I only knew of 5 in the 15 years before that. That says something to me.
RocketRobin
PR Founding Father
There seems to be some information technology influx here that results in the spread of news much more than in the past. Take, for instance, the news of concussions and how many there are in high school football and all the studies going on about them these days. They are studying the football helmet, the mouth guard, the effects on playing, base testing, all kinds of stuff. I know more about concussions now than I ever have without ever having studied on them at all and I know how many high school football athletes get them. Do I think they are new? Or that there are more today than when I was in high school 25 years ago? Certainly not, the internet, cell phones, personal communications have improved so dramatically over time that I hear about much more than I ever have in the past. I don't think David Bailey and Magoo Chandler were the only paralyzed riders of my youth, just the only ones I heard of due to the nature of news at the time. Motorcycle info only covered the "Pros" at the time and it lagged weeks behind the events. Now, I know that Ken Roczen broke his arm in practice within hours of it happening complete with a pic of the arm.....
Guys have always gotten hurt riding / racing motorcycles. Neck / back injuries are not new, but you hear of more now due to the information age. In addition to more news traveling faster, Bikes / jumping have gotten faster and bigger over time too which also increases the injuries when crashes occur.... example, there wasn't any pro's in the 80's trying to learn how to backflip their bike on practice days like Josh Hill was a year ago, and his injury is a part of a new culture of riding and pushing the envelope that wasn't around many years ago. So comparing a Josh Hill Type injury to a David Bailey type injury are different types of riding accidents that should not be compared when looking at neck braces since it's not apples to apples comparison. (not saying that Josh Hill had a neck / back injury, but he is a high profile example of the different type of riding that induces major crashes and major injuries that guys like David Bailey and Magoo Chandler did not ever even attempt or know anything about in their day.)
In the end, no one can say certainly that their neck brace either saved them from injury or caused it to be worse in their crash. They must make their own personal choice as to whether or not to wear one and believe the theory behind the device to prevent injury or death. I personally think that the new Atlas brace has answered some of the criticisms of the other neck braces offering similar protection while transferring the load to places other than the spine, which seems like a good theory to me. Still load transfer, but to areas that can break and heal without life changing consequences. Good idea in my book, I really want to see one of these braces somewhere on a rider to see how it rides on them.
mooch
PR Elite
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Georgie, surely you can discern the difference between what I said and what you said in your "proven" comment?
Me - "I don't think anyone here can decisively state whether or not his broken neck would have happened had he been wearing a brace. The same holds true for whether or not he would have sustained an injury somewhere else had he been wearing a brace. If you have no way of knowing, why even go there?"
You - "I think it proves that the braces have no credible safety function. People are still getting hurt, no evidence to suggest its preventing injury".
- I'm saying, no one can state one way or the other the effectiveness of the brace.
- You're saying, it's already proven that they're useless.
I agree with folks who are saying that until something is proven one way or the other that it's a personal decision.
Which leads me to why I find it annoying when folks come along and state that wearing a brace is worse than not wearing one or that if you don't wear a brace you're risking injury. Either way, Until that IS proven, I view that as bad advice.
I know that if I talked someone out of wearing a brace, I'd feel like shiit if they then went out and broke their neck. I'd always be wondering whether the brace would have prevented that injury and that I gave them the bad advice that resulted in an injury. So, MY opinion is folks should avoid trying to convince other people what to do or not to do because we're all truly clueless at this point.
GeorgiePorgie
PR Founding Father
I'd feel like crap if I told someone to wear one and they broke their neck. I think we're all aiming for the same thing here. Which is testing correct? So it can be proven if they're useless. But it's gotta be tested first to be proven. But the injuries happening with and without wearing them isn't helping out the "they're helping people when you wear them" argument. Because people are still gettin hurt with them on (i.e. with it on:Canard, without it off: Rattray)
If they're so great at preventing injury then why aren't we seeing an increase in non-brace wearers breaking necks and a stable, or declining number in the ones who do wear? (That would prove to me they're beneficial) We can only speculate becuase there are no numbers. Show me the freaking numbers, and please Dr. Leatt I don't want to see your evidence, have an outside company do it!
KTMkarl794
PR Addict
FMXPAUL, your slightly off concerning the Thoracic controlling your breathing, the presence of facets on the sides of the vertebrae are for articulation with the heads of the ribs. That being said, an injury to the Thoracic portion of your spine will result in what feels like the inability to breathe due to the effect it has on the ribs. (I'm speaking from experience, on NYE I fractured my T4-T7 at Ram Jam and thought I punctured a lung, broke my wrist as well).
However injury to the spinal chord in the Thoracic portion of your spine, will not result in the inability to breathe. Damage or SCI's above the T1 vertebra affects the arms and the legs. Injuries below the T1 vertebra affect the legs and trunk below the injury, but usually do not affect the arms and hands.
Injuries to C-1 and C-2 (Cervical aka neck) can result in a loss of many involuntary functions including the ability to breathe, necessitating breathing aids such as ventilators or diaphragmatic pacemakers.
Crute- I'm with ya on the chest protectors, I still wear an outer hard shell as well.
And for the folks itching to argue a certain side, I was not wearing a neck brace and I never have. Have I been pondering the transition, yes, but no matter what, it's all a matter of choice and what feels comfortable to the rider. Both sides have valid arguments, but neither side has solid proof nor can they argue against the fact that the level of our sport is higher than it has ever been, and so is the risk of injury! Either accept the risk or find another sport is what I say.
However injury to the spinal chord in the Thoracic portion of your spine, will not result in the inability to breathe. Damage or SCI's above the T1 vertebra affects the arms and the legs. Injuries below the T1 vertebra affect the legs and trunk below the injury, but usually do not affect the arms and hands.
Injuries to C-1 and C-2 (Cervical aka neck) can result in a loss of many involuntary functions including the ability to breathe, necessitating breathing aids such as ventilators or diaphragmatic pacemakers.
Crute- I'm with ya on the chest protectors, I still wear an outer hard shell as well.
And for the folks itching to argue a certain side, I was not wearing a neck brace and I never have. Have I been pondering the transition, yes, but no matter what, it's all a matter of choice and what feels comfortable to the rider. Both sides have valid arguments, but neither side has solid proof nor can they argue against the fact that the level of our sport is higher than it has ever been, and so is the risk of injury! Either accept the risk or find another sport is what I say.
mooch
PR Elite
+1 !