Ok- What Really Happened to D-12?

Money and management are obviously reasons why D12 failed. Like any business if you lack capital, lack management and cant keep up with innovation you will fail.
 
VETRIDER801 said:
Well I have been reading all of these posts about district 12 I think the bigger questions is what thew heck happend to our sport that was thriving in the 1980's ??? District 11 was awsome and now its almost gone.

I personally think that the change from outdoor motocross to these new type of ourdoor tracks where all you do is jump bigger and bigger things for the most part has hurt the sport in general, along with the economy, cost of these expensive 4 stroke motors has really hurt to boot. I have a friend wih a 450 that needs a grand in parts just to get it running!!! I think if we can get the tracks tamed out a bit it would help, racing wise streamlining some of the classes wouldnt hurt ether maybe some newer 2 stroke motors to come along would help as well

class wise back in the day you had 80cc mini jr, sr, 65cc, pw 50, vet 30, vet 40, 125 a,b,c 250 a,b,c and open b,a, quad, and women that was it

there are way too many classes now which drag the days out longer and hurt. I think the AMA could help this by taking points out of C class and doing away with some of the other classes altogether without points in c class this would help advance riders to the b class and give the c class to the guys that should be in there. win 2 races, then you advance to b When I ran C back in the mid 80's I never ran for points I ran for the fun of competing As for the tracks, look at outdoor pro races from the 1980's and compare to now as far as track configuration also pay attention to how many "pro" racers are hurt these days. Riding buy yourself and jumping this bigger stuff is one thing, doing it in a big pack is another. I know I am not as fast as I was then, but I can tell you that without a doubt, I jump higher and farther now then when I was 16 in 1986, I am a 44 years old now. I have ran a few fair races and I think the "catapult" type jumps are not a good idea, totally blind as far as where you are going when you leave the ground, I saw a guy crash at a race and another guy plow into him, it was ugly

lucky both of them walked away. I suggested to the track referee at the last fair race to consider using a big table like the one on the a/b track at briarcliff, his response to me was if you dont like it "just dont jump it" you need to be open to new ideas!! our class had 11 and was the 3rd biggest of the night thats terrible!!!

jump wise you shouldnt have to lock up the brakes to roll over jumps, you should be albe to ride over them whether you bomb them fast or not that really takes the fun out of a track when you have to do that

Briarcliff had what was considered a nice turnout at 400 or so riders for the battle of ohio

back in the day you had that many at honda hills almost every week maybe some of the answers for todays problems with lack of riders lie "back in the day" the sport needs riders from all ages and skill levels, and tracks to match right now there arent may of the less skilled riders willing to race for various reasons, and it is hurting the sport and with honda hills closed for now that easier track doesnt exist to race on

Briarcliff's C track would be a nice one to gets some newbies to try racing but I dont think he has any place to put a gate. Also night racing was big, now its pratically gone without a couple of tracks that arent open right now that were then, I think that hurts the people that have to work early on saturdays as well.


If something isnt done soon this sport is in real trouble in my opinion, just my .02 cents
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I agree with this. I am 44 and don't have the skills or balls to double some of these monster jumps, rolling them or jumping into and then out of is super dangerous with as fast as people are and the HUGE jumps. Put that together in a race and I prefer to ride "practice" days over racing any time. On another note, how do most people feel about random race order? Back in the glory days of Saturday night races at Honda Hills, we would show up early for the 60's 80's and school boys and run our races and then stick around for the 'show' with the 125, 250 and opens. (Full gates in the 125/250 b AND c classes!) My point is this: My son races 65's and it blows to show up on a Sunday morning at the crack of dawn, practice, and then be the 19 moto in the first round. (WTF is there 19 motos any way?) but second, wouldn't it be nice to know that you could show up at the track on Sunday at 7, know you would have practice and race and be done in 3-4 hours and then have the other group show up at 1pm and be done in 3-4 hours? It doesn't matter the order, just make sure things run on time and on schedule (if possible) and maybe more people would turn out on race days. Nothing like being there 12-14 hours because of the 'random' race order. Just a thought? Does that idea suck?
 
fluidpower said:
I agree with this. I am 44 and don't have the skills or balls to double some of these monster jumps, rolling them or jumping into and then out of is super dangerous with as fast as people are and the HUGE jumps. Put that together in a race and I prefer to ride "practice" days over racing any time. On another note, how do most people feel about random race order? Back in the glory days of Saturday night races at Honda Hills, we would show up early for the 60's 80's and school boys and run our races and then stick around for the 'show' with the 125, 250 and opens. (Full gates in the 125/250 b AND c classes!) My point is this: My son races 65's and it blows to show up on a Sunday morning at the crack of dawn, practice, and then be the 19 moto in the first round. (WTF is there 19 motos any way?) but second, wouldn't it be nice to know that you could show up at the track on Sunday at 7, know you would have practice and race and be done in 3-4 hours and then have the other group show up at 1pm and be done in 3-4 hours? It doesn't matter the order, just make sure things run on time and on schedule (if possible) and maybe more people would turn out on race days. Nothing like being there 12-14 hours because of the 'random' race order. Just a thought? Does that idea suck?
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Fluidpower you are right on you idea does not suck

My Brother raced schoolboy and my dad raced super senior at Honda Hills, which is now 40 plus which were both the "early program" races I raced 125c at night which my dad was glad because that gave him one less bike to keep up in the daytime.

You are right on as far as how to run the program!! I think splitting up a race day into 2 segments like that is the way to go to shorten up the days The way Dick Klamfoth ran Honda Hills was perfect, if you didnt need to be there early then you didnt have to show up till after 4 or so to sign up for a night race if I remember right. His track was also pretty safe to race on and anyone that wanted to race could learn on it without feeling intimidated, some jumps with alot of elavation changes

my first race there in 1984 was in open b on a 1982 yz-490, I got lapped twice, (I went from a ds-100 to a yz-490 no wonder I was turd slow lol). then in 1985 I moved up to 125c after begging my dad, for a 125 then I started to be able to keep up some on an 1984 suzuki then in 1986 I got a newer 85 kx 125 and then I was up front on it and had a blast. I think that setup is the way to go promoting/running a race wise, track was well-lit for night racing and you could see where you were going off of every jump for the most part. I really enjoyed watching my brother and dad race knowing I didnt even have to get ready till after 6

Dick did change the track a little here and there but for the most part it was the same. he never would put any double jumps on it I think it could be sucessfull to this day with the same type format I am sure the track would have to be roughed up a bit but it could serve in the same capacity as it did back in the day. When that place was up and running all the other tracks fed off of that place I think and when it closed I think it really hurt racing in this area. I enjoy Briarcliff myself I ride on both tracks but racing wise that track is alot for me to try to get down to race on One can only hope Honda Hills can be rehabbed someday and reopened, I loved the wednesday night pratice there as well.

AMA wise I know first hand from a close friend that its a pain dealing with all that crap to put a race on, I think the AMA has forgotten about the local riders and promoters for the most part they need to do more to make things easier and streamline the classes in my opinion

-VETRIDER 801
 
GPs are the way to go. Wake up at 10am. Ample time for the hangover. Load up. Chug a Gatorade. Arrive at noon. Race at 1230. Loaded up and on the way home by 130. Home in time to cut the grass or do something else.
 
Not sure what you are looking for Paul, but there are several good explanations of what happened in this thread. Poor turnouts combined with rising prices along with a few other factors seem like a plausible explanation to me. I raced D12 from 2000 to 2004. I never understood why the turnouts weren't bigger either. I raced D11 also from 2004 to 2005 and saw the same trend as what was happening in D12. One other factor might be that the sport in general was experiencing a strong growth period from the mid-90's until the mid-2000's. People come and go out of the sport all of the time, so maybe the natural cycle of things is what finally killed off D12.
 
fmxpaul said:
Still nothing of any use, as far as answering original question.
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Who made the decision to let the district desolve?

If you still had people in the organization positions (administrative) would it just be limping along like D11?

What is to stop you FMXPaul from reviving D12? My understanding is that anybody can be an officeholder if their voted in correct?

What is to stop D11 from just covering the whole state since there are less D11 tracks now?
 
Great idea except for the fact that I have no land, no money, only half a brain... lol
And Freeh- what I've "been looking for" is an explanation from the people that actually ran the district on exactly why it folded- not a bunch of "it was probably". Since all we got that was even close was "go tell Paul to Go**** himself" (and that proves I was getting closer to a real answer) I guess nobody's got the balls (or thinks enough of the question) to speak up. Pitracer should just close this thread because it could go on forever....It's already gone on too long. I'm going riding somewhere.
 
fmxpaul said:
Great idea except for the fact that I have no land, no money, only half a brain... lol
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Correct me if I'm off here but I don't believe being a track owner is a requirement to hold office. I would think that if an individual put forth some ambition, enthusiasm about his mission and objective, some vision, leadership and some smart persistant promotion they could make it happen?

It amazes me that a coworker of mine, John Devito, promotes and puts on big Dual Sport and enduro rides every year. And he lives "in town", my town-Heath. John doesn't have any ties to any of the properties they use for their events. And he draws some well known riders and racers. And the really cool part is that I know some of the landowners who's property is used in parts of the event, and they're happy to see John come around and they enjoy watching the racers passing through their land.

It's Johns personality, enthusiasm for the sport, and demeanor and respect to folks that makes it work for him.

Just Do It Paul! Go positive with this and be the man that made it happen!

(and I would go ride somewhere today too, but I'm at work :) )
 
fmxpaul said:
Great idea except for the fact that I have no land, no money, only half a brain... lol
And Freeh- what I've "been looking for" is an explanation from the people that actually ran the district on exactly why it folded- not a bunch of "it was probably". Since all we got that was even close was "go tell Paul to Go**** himself" (and that proves I was getting closer to a real answer) I guess nobody's got the balls (or thinks enough of the question) to speak up. Pitracer should just close this thread because it could go on forever....It's already gone on too long. I'm going riding somewhere.
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Ohhhh FMXPaul...

1st point: I DON'T NEED BALLS - I am a GRANDMA now.

2nd point: Please open your eyes and re-read these posts. Most of the riders who have posted on this thread, HAVE ANSWERED your question.. You just seem to not want to accept what they are saying. There was no great conspiracy.. D12 WAS AMAZING in it's glory years.. I had a great time working with everyone. The promoters poured their heart and souls into the district - In the end, it just didn't work BECAUSE OF ALL OF THE ABOVE, FROM THE LAST 9 PAGES OF POSTS...

3rd point: They aren't going to answer you FMXPaul - They don't like you. You seemed to stir up trouble back then, and here you are again. I tried to change their mind about you all of these years, but they won't return my calls either... bahahahahhahahahhahahha

NOW.. I am going back into hibernation, I have toys to buy..

Connie - Formerly known as Towergal - D12 PointsKeeper & Secretary (for all those newbies out there..)
 
TowerGal said:
3rd point: They aren't going to answer you FMXPaul - They don't like you. You seemed to stir up trouble back then, and here you are again. I tried to change their mind about you all of these years, but they won't return my calls either... bahahahahhahahahhahahha
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Just kidding about point 3.. But I REALLY don't know why they won't return any of my calls... HEY WAIT A MINUTE.. I am going to start my own post...

Connie :)
 
Now was that so hard?


Jeez, took long enough.

Don't give two flying shits about anyone "liking me" I'm not taking applications for new friends. And YES I like to stir things up. Worked like a charm, didn't it? Busy ass topic eh?

Better than the boring crap "what gear do I buy" posts.

Still don't actually care. This did exactly what I wanted it to do....
 
Anyone know if Bubba is going to race the Monster Cup??? Its probably his fault D12 is no longer around anyway.
 
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