Messing up the flow?

ck1racerx

ck1racerx

PR Addict
Ok boys, I need some clarification on this one.
SEVERAL times I have seen posts on here saying that this or that messed up the "flow" of the track???
These things are called obstacles. By definition they are there to mess up the flow.... I hear some of the best riders in the world using this "flow" thing... RV said he hopes they "open up the flow" of Muddy Creek for next year. Why? So he can go 120mph over that step up triple? And win by 3 min instead of 2 min? I guess I just don't understand.
Yes, I am a grumpy old fat man that get upset at the drop of a dime, but "flow" is my new trigger. :p
 
Last GP at Fast Traxx they straightened out a section that had a 180º bottleneck. Really opened the flow and my least favorite section of track became my most favorite. Got more fun with every lap...
 
The flow of a track makes sense, some tracks just dont have it. Its when sections of the track work well together, in harmony if you will.


Its like how your beer flows well with your hot wings and pizza. It flows.


Now think drinking orange juice right after brushing your teeth........that doesnt flow.
 
Clearly you have me mixed up with someone else... Beer and tooth paste are the best.

My issue with flow is. a motocross track in not suppose to flow... A slow section in the middle of two fast sections, that's called a chicane. Its there to mess up "flow" Without obstacles you have flat track.... you think flat track guys say "Yeah, the flow of the track would be better if you got rid of those two turns... man we could really flow"

Thanks Heshey, now I want wings for lunch... mmmmmmmm beer
 
Ride 4-strokes and you'll get the grip of flow. Being pigs, they don't like direction change.
Overall speed in MX has gotten much faster with the addition of the pigs..
 
I know where this is comming from and why its posted, i was using it in the meaning as the entire track is very fast with a few bigger jumps, not a ton of technical obstacles or rythem/slow sections. Its like the lead guitarist forgetting a couple cords then jumping right back on track. Messes up the flow and harmony,
 
Beer toothpaste and wings.....dude you need a nutritionist!


To me flow has nothing to do with speed. Its more like everything clicks and no matter the jumps, corners or hills it just works together in harmony. You can either fight the track of flow with it. A track can have all the challenge in the world and be slower (SX for example) and still flow. Its all about how its put together.
 
Yeah, I get that... BUT wouldn't a track that has crappy flow make for better racing? Just seams to me if a track has "flow" (I just threw up in my mouth a little) then everyone is doing everything the same way. Sounds like follow the leader...
So, I guess your right, I understand FLOW... Most of the Supercross tracks this year had great "flow" and produced some of the worse racing in history.
What's the opposite of flow? Yeah, That's what I want.

Excuse me boss, I don't like the "flow" of the office. I can not see the receptionist hinny from my desk, Can we rearrange?..... Yeah, I can understand that....

Wait... We need to remove that corner. It has bad qi, Removing it would increase its polarity and breath though its eyelids.... Welcome to Feng shui Raceway... Im coming around...
 
Flow has nothing to do with speed, it has to do with poorly placed obsticles on a track by someone who doesnt know what they are doing with a dozer. You wanna race a track with no flow race endurocross. A MX track is suspose to flow with obsitcles that can be hit in sequence with eachother to make it threw a section clean.
 
Flow is a personal opinion of how well the track allows a rider to feel like that are going fast and uninhibited by the obstacles and turns. I dislike the term flow. A track never flows, a rider is the one with the flow.
 
BriarcliffMx said:
Flow is a personal opinion of how well the track allows a rider to feel like that are going fast and uninhibited by the obstacles and turns. I dislike the term flow. A track never flows, a rider is the one with the flow.
Click to expand...

I agree with you on this JO! Dance with the motorcycle. If you or the motorcycle don't feel like dancing on that day, well... there isn't any flow and certainly no treat after the dace!
 
BriarcliffMx said:
A track never flows, a rider is the one with the flow.
Click to expand...

Only partially true IMO. A track can flow as well, like MXfreedom said. It depends on how it is put together. Think about it....lets say you have a track with 6 tight 90 deg corners all right in a row, would that flow? How about a tight 180 right at the base of the landing of a 90' table top? You wouldnt be able to jump it and stick the corner, No flow.

They both can have flow.
 
In my opinion it mostly has to due with obsticals distance x size out of a corner. You don't want to come out of a corner, have a long straight then a jump you have to brake on the face of. Distance from obsticals to the next corner are less important. It becomes a braking issue there.
 
hershey said:
The flow of a track makes sense, some tracks just dont have it. Its when sections of the track work well together, in harmony if you will.


Its like how your beer flows well with your hot wings and pizza. It flows.


Now think drinking orange juice right after brushing your teeth........that doesnt flow.
Click to expand...

I'm with you Hershey...Mi' comprende' ;)

One thing is that "flow" is different for everyone. If one rider can double-double-double through a section, fast or not, he/she has "flow. However if another rider cannot "flow" through it that way and has to hit the bottom or slap the face of the next take off every time, the track does not "flow" for him. More than likely causes arm pump and is not fun to him 'cause he can only do two laps and has to pull off.

Taking the big dogs for example, RV IMO would have to have the most "flow" of anyone on any track. Well, that and the greatest conditioning as he could slap the face of multiple jumps for 30 min plus 2 and still win. The unfortunate piece is that the majority of us are not that way. "Flow" makes it enjoyable for the rider. If the rider is fighting the track and trying to make obstacles, he has no "flow" and either needs to improve his skills/bike, slow down, or quit MX. It's all relative.

A hairpin or 180 turn is not the cause of lacking flow, it's the obstable before it that determines that. If it's a 5th gear pinned quadruple dragonback 1000ft dropoff quansica that only superman can do and even he has issues making it sometimes without going over the berm into the woods and landing on the tree stand, it's lacking a little "flow". Most would have to roll through that section in first gear to make the turn...

Or is it this Flo of which you speak?:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftbm8EZZDqI


Do you get it yet or are you still in need of some mental help?

malvernmx said:
In my opinion it mostly has to due with obsticals distance x size out of a corner. You don't want to come out of a corner, have a long straight then a jump you have to brake on the face of. Distance from obstacles to the next corner are less important. It becomes a braking issue there.
Click to expand...

There we go...
 
hershey said:
Only partially true IMO. A track can flow as well, like MXfreedom said. It depends on how it is put together. Think about it....lets say you have a track with 6 tight 90 deg corners all right in a row, would that flow? How about a tight 180 right at the base of the landing of a 90' table top? You wouldnt be able to jump it and stick the corner, No flow.

They both can have flow.
Click to expand...

If you talk to enough people, you will find that flow is the most variable term used motocross. Different strokes for different folks. Flow is a preference. Now I will agree there are some tracks that a large majority of people know that they don't "flow". Most fair tracks don't "flow" well. They are tight and restricted. However, I have heard people claim that tracks don't "flow" because they cannot make it over an obstacle (out of a turn possibly). That same obstacle a guy like Willy b says is awesome, the track flows so well. Why does it work for Willy and not others? Speed. The speed at which air and liquid can travel through a pipe has an effect on it rate/speed, or "flow". Same in Mx, the speed at which you can ride will affect how well you interpret "flow". I dislike the term also because use it to sound like they are faster than they really are.
 
I think its both rider and track. The more the rider enjoys the feeling, the more it flows in their mind. Also like Jason says, placement and design of obstacles is relevant: Case-in point:
At BC…
The Gonzer wall that was in the tight right around the treejust before the off-camber left (going toward the triple) (in an old layout)flowed well. Tough little Waller that was fun yet tricky and made that section better than just two turns.

The Super Berm……just didn’t work, on so many levels. It Killed the flow…
 
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