Chillitown battle race-flaggers

I did like the fact that most if not all the flaggers were wearing yellow or orange vests. That is a good idea. The sweet little pop-up tents for each flagger was also a nice touch. It truly is a thankless job for little or no pay, that is the main reason that we need to invest in training for those people. Well, that and rider safety.
 
Go to any roadrace, even the lowliest amateur race like Nelson Ledges, and the flaggers are a club
that has training, radios, a crew of 2-3-4 people at each flag station.

Those christian guys sometimes flag at Smith road. Last year I mentioned to
one that he was positioned so that nobody could see him if he was waving his
flag. He got huffy, telling me he'd "been flagging for 20 years". Great. Twenty
years of nobody seeing him.

One person in charge of corner workers, who knows enough to train each one
for even 5 minutes, would be a great help. A real corner worker's meeting and a
real rider's meeting would help too.
 
Nope.....nothing to see here. Move on.

It makes too much sense to spend an extra 15 mins before racing starts to have a flaggers meeting and be sure to talk to the flaggers about what is expected of them and how to accomplish that each race....to ensure as much safety as possible.... to actually do it. Sounding off to deaf ears.

Should have posted this in the "how to make MX safer" thread. It would have been less wasted MB
 
Ok.....Im going to lay out what really pisses me off about this thread.

Why is it the only thing we hear from the 2 track owners that responded to this ( and you both know I appreciate and support you both at every opportunity I can so dont get too upset) is how you pay them and what a great job they do???

Obviously this is an issue that is brought up regularly about every track at some point or another. Why not take the NONDEFENSIVE position and take some of this advice to heart. There is only the possibility of helping keep riders safe in the event of being down on the track. At least respond in a fashion that shows you have a little compassion for possible safety of the riders. We are not talking about a full blown 1 hour safety training course with pass/fail testing here. Just a simple training session and monitoring of flagging.

Proper flagging could prevent mortal injury, lack of it certainly has lent its hand in causing it this year.

Defensive attitudes rarely are the driving force behind sustained success
 
There are flagger meetings at the OMA events, and there is no way it can prepare the flaggers for every situation. Now that doesn't excuse some of the behaviors that we all have seen at every single track. however, I think that some people are making an assumption that the flaggers at our events are severely unprepared. I don't think this is the case. Can the flaggers learn from each racing experience? Absolutely, we all can. Think about it, the flaggers at Chillitown and Briarcliff do this 3-4 times each year, assuming they're the same people each time. How many things have you mastered in your life and executed perfectly after 3-4 attempts and then did it flawlessly ever since? I just ordered 15 nascar style headsets at $250 a pop, they all have kenwood radios, I will have them in the so called "best position" and guess what, there still could be a problem. Because motocross is dynamic. If there is a way to screw up and crash in a bad fashion, you we are going to do it. I think offering suggestions is what is need here, turn off the grinding wheel, lay down the axe.
 
Thank you. A great post that should have been laid on us the first time.

The suggestions that were given seemed to have been dismissed. This post offers an informed and compassionate tone.
 
Most of our flaggers are from the CMA (Christian Motorcycle Association) and they do volunteer their time and for that we are very greatful. We do however make a nice contribution to their organization for their efforts even though it is not expected. Along with flagging they also provide Sunday morning church services as well has bike blessings all day long if requested. The CMA also sets up a booth handing out a cold drinks to riders and spectators. We absolutely love having them! We do however hire and pay flaggers as well....I think we had maybe three "paid" flaggers this weekend. If anyone is interested please contact us. We pay our flaggers a great wage.

On to the matter at hand, being a flagger is not as easy as it seems and in most cases the average spectator only sees what they want to see when an accident happens. The flagger is expected to man their position and flag to alert oncoming riders. Most of the time the flagger will not be able to assist the down rider because if they do they could jeopardize themselves and other riders in the process. I agree that flagging is something all track need to work on. There is ALWAYS room for improvement when safety is involved.

Again, if you or someone you know is interested in being a flagger at CTMX please have them contact us. We are always looking for people that are passionate about the sport to add to our dedicated team!
 
Question....just what do flaggers earn? As a business owner I know good help is hard to find. That being said it is a pretty horrible job to have to stand there out in the sun all day....I wouldn't do it... but the safety of the riders is at stake here. I understand that for most of the local races the races begin and end at a reasonable length of time. Chillitown was another story. Point being if you are going to promote a big race which will inevitably run a long period of time you should plan on paying your staff a little extra. I don't know about the flaggers but I understand the score keepers were paid the same as if it were a normal race. If that is true then it should be corrected. Just a little to think about here. What is the old saying...you generally get what you pay for!!
Someone earlier commented on the flaggers at Malvern...Jason has a good crew. Only been to a couple of Briar Cliffs races, since he doesn't hold many, but no problems there either.
 
Lotts24 said:
I have ran qualifiers where you were allowed to jump on yellow. Could not jump on a cross flag, but it's not that hard to know the difference to which race you are at. One thing I notice sometimes is flag location. The yellow may be after the downed rider or right beside them. The flag needs to be put out ahead of the accident to get people slowed down before they get there.
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Chilli Town MX said:
Most of our flaggers are from the CMA (Christian Motorcycle Association) and they do volunteer their time and for that we are very greatful. We do however make a nice contribution to their organization for their efforts even though it is not expected. Along with flagging they also provide Sunday morning church services as well has bike blessings all day long if requested. The CMA also sets up a booth handing out a cold drinks to riders and spectators. We absolutely love having them! We do however hire and pay flaggers as well....I think we had maybe three "paid" flaggers this weekend. If anyone is interested please contact us. We pay our flaggers a great wage.

On to the matter at hand, being a flagger is not as easy as it seems and in most cases the average spectator only sees what they want to see when an accident happens. The flagger is expected to man their position and flag to alert oncoming riders. Most of the time the flagger will not be able to assist the down rider because if they do they could jeopardize themselves and other riders in the process. I agree that flagging is something all track need to work on. There is ALWAYS room for improvement when safety is involved.

Again, if you or someone you know is interested in being a flagger at CTMX please have them contact us. We are always looking for people that are passionate about the sport to add to our dedicated team!
Click to expand...


i thought u could jump on yelloew, thanks Kelleye for helping clear that up.
and bike blessings, maybe my bike wouldnt of "blown up" if i had it blessed :/
the flagging issuses need addressed in a way that it is effective for the racers and track.
 
Not saying flaggers don't deserve more dough but more money will not make flaggers any better. No way you could train flaggers for every situation. I've listened in on the flagger meetings, the basics are taught, everything else that occurs is often of panic or reaction. Some fail, others are good. Key to flagging is attention. The other is being in front of the downed rider directing them away from the situation. Knowing the track and have ridden on it is a major asset. Safety for the flagger themselves is of concern, head on a swivel for sure. Proper location for safety and sight. I dislike flagging, I am a bit to over zealous in my short career and would wind up hurt if I did it frequently. I have a temper and would probably strike someone with my flag staff if a rider did not obey. Good topic, keep it civil.
 
To add to my last post that must've sounded like I was blowing this off....We have a flaggers meeting at every single one of our races. And the same people flag in the same place almost every race. They are allowed to sit, but not during a race. They are not allowed to be on their cell phones either. We have a guy that goes around with water at least once during the race who also gives "potty" breaks. Each flagger has a radio to communicate. Are there still issues? Absolutely! And we try to deal with them on a case by case basis. No one's gonna get it right every time. But I think we have a great crew. That's what I meant by "I think they do a pretty good job."
~Tina~
 
My point of this post wasn't money. Who cares. Shouldn't be about money. Little kids lives are worth a currency sum? I think not. My point was, when a parent grabs the flag and stands in the middle of the track in front of their injured kid because the flagger won't step foot on the track, there's your problem. I don't care what track, briarcliff Malvern chillitown Loretta's glen Helen, how much they're paid, or who they are. Just learn to do your job. Pay attention. It's really not that hard. I put a kid in a coma because I landed on him on 50s. The flagger didn't throw the flag. I bet that wasn't because he wasn't getting paid enough, but because he wasn't paying attention.
 
malvernmx said:
To add to my last post that must've sounded like I was blowing this off....We have a flaggers meeting at every single one of our races. And the same people flag in the same place almost every race. They are allowed to sit, but not during a race. They are not allowed to be on their cell phones either. We have a guy that goes around with water at least once during the race who also gives "potty" breaks. Each flagger has a radio to communicate. Are there still issues? Absolutely! And we try to deal with them on a case by case basis. No one's gonna get it right every time. But I think we have a great crew. That's what I meant by "I think they do a pretty good job."
~Tina~
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I've never really seen any issues with the flaggers out there at malvern, only issue I've personally ever witnessed out there was supervision while the mini's are out. Witch I think this issue is more on the parents then the track and staff itself.
 
Brady...I appreciate your straight forward approach and just being honest. Good for you man! You get a high 5 next time I see you.

I have just been hired by CTMX for free to help rectify the flagging at CTMX. The folks from CMA is a great start because they are committed and older. Flagging will be improved at the next race...I promise. Amongst all that happens on race day (good or bad)...a rider going down is the great equalizer in humility for us. I believe that is part of the reason why the Moto family is a family.
 
I do have the flagger video, I believe it's the Brett Downey video? I have it, you can use it or burn a copy of it if needed Jarrett.
 
You are right it shouldn't be just about the money. My point is if you want to create a regular crew then the pay should be fair. I am sure all of you have had bad experiences at let's say McDonalds. You received better service when it was teenagers and they were eager to have a job. Now it is adults who can't get a job anywhere else because they aren't educated well enough. The same here. It can be young folks doing the job but they need insentives to want to do the job well and to keep them coming back. But you are right...educating them to be able to the job well is equally important. I am sure they feel horrible when they know they just screwed up in front of the whole crowd. For anyone that is worth his salt knowing you are doing a good job and BEING TOLD THAT is perhaps as important as the pay scale involved. It is just human nature.
My other point was that if you are going to promote a big race such as Chillitown the pay scale should reflect that. Perhaps a bonus. I know it is difficult and promoters are struggling to make a go of it and Chillitown does a fantastic job. With any big race there are bound to be problems. Our first experience with Lorreta's was...You got to be kidding me. Doesn't anyone control their children anymore. I remember telling Russ to give me a badge and I would be happy to patrol the roadways!
Enough said. You guys are doing a good job and I am happy to see that you all care enough to realize your problem areas and address them.
 
I do have the Brett Downey video. Jeff Emig is the host and its a pretty good video. That will be shown. I am also going to write a Flagger Contract for each flagger to read and sign just for acknowledgement of being a Flagger. I am going to arrange a training session at the next race for CTMX when we are all in the same place and then just keep working with flaggers indiviudally during the event days. That is a start.

I normally charge $100 for practice days and $150 for race days. Sometimes depending on the turnout I will cut the promoter a break in pay because I want to see the tracks succeed for all our sakes. If a promoter decides to pay me more based on a large turnout then that is icing on the cake. Most of us would be all for a raise on good days...but what about a decrease in pay when a track has a losing day financially?

I wouldn't do that to an employee and no promoter has that I have been involved with. CTMX for example sets us out of towners in a hotel room for the weekend, they feed us a ton of food and give us a shirt or hoody. They do say Thank you and mean it. Good relationships and a good working team means more to me than how much I get paid becuase all this stuff filters out into the rest of the event where we all benefit in a good atmosphere and race event.

Malvern's Crew didn't happen over night or just with Jason. He did give us a raise when he came aboard and allowed me to double up on flaggers than the previous promoter. Thank you Jason for being concerned about the riders safety. Some of the flaggers at Malvern have mutliple years of experience and most have atleast 1 or 2. It has taken 7 years of consistency and dedication to build the flagging staff into what you see at Malvern today. They are not allowed to have anyone standing with them and are subjected to termination if they break the 3 basic rules of no cell phones, standing when riders are coming towards you and no one standing with you.

I flagged for 9 years and have been involved at some level or another with the flagging staff at every track I work at for the past 6-7 years.

Also, many of the things you folks are suggesting on here have been covered and have added some awesome insight. Thats one of the main reasons I love hearing from people on the outside looking in because they see things differently. Being on the inside allows someone like me to help teach the ones on the outside of what is really going on then what you just see on the surface. The customer is not always right and neither are the people in charge...but being right is the goal.

Also...we have to make the best with what we have. Tracks are at different maturity levels than others. So you have to take steps over TIME to build things up.

I LOVE THIS THREAD!!!
 
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Thanks for all of the positive posts that have come about now.....it shouldnt take some one getting the pot stirring stick out though!

Great insight for us riders to see that there is more involved with the flaggers at the tracks promoters have posted from. It would be great if the OMA adopted the system that Jarrett is implementing for CTMX and require it at all of the tracks . It adds a degree of responsibility and professionalism to the job. If riders see this it will give them that much more confidence in racing. Lets face it, the safer you feel the more likely you are to race. In a small way I believe it would help the attendance.
 
That isn't a horrible pay day...better than McDonalds and certainly more rewarding. I did not mean to imply that they should be paid according to turn out but if you are promoting a big event other than a normal race day they should expect to be paid a little more than normal.
Sounds as if you are doing all the right things. If I were a young person I would join up!!!
Now if only we could get the parents to keep tabs on their kids and all the pit vehicles both the track and the pits would be a safer place!!
 
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