C class struggles.

ck1racerx said:
OMG... if this crap ends in creating another class I am going to spit.
The C class IS the beginner class. And lets not forget to add the cheaters in the B class doing everything possible not to move up.

"rational argument" whats that?
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New

The C class IS the beginner class.

Not anymore! Please, try to stay up to date. LOL!!
 
The elimination of the C class at lorettas is not going to happen. 4 classes.....40 riders....160 entries......the families, the camping.......the qualifiers, regionals......as DMX said....$$$$$........therefore it is not a subject that will be dealt with. In my opinion, whether it be OMA, SWOHMX or whomever, there should be one person or a couple that can watch someone riding their races, and look at them and say, come on man......your NOT a C rider. Your now in the B class.
 
What I'm trying to get at, is the idea of renaming the classes and getting rid of the "C" moniker. Beginner for beginners, 1 year or less experience, then the "junior" class instead of "C".
 
Move up and get beat by a better class of sandbagger , I've always said . Been happening since skill level divisions were made , and always will . There were only bike displacement classes when I started and you took your lumps . Gates were full of every bike imaginable and racers ranged from guys in work boots/jeans/flannel shirts on stripped down Enduros to shop sponsored guys on the newest bikes we couldn't get . Tracks were rough - little to no prep . Funny , I don't remember all the bitching . We were glad to have places and guys to race . Ahhh , the GOD ( Good Old Days ) of MX .
 
halffast said:
Move up and get beat by a better class of sandbagger , I've always said . Been happening since skill level divisions were made , and always will . There were only bike displacement classes when I started and you took your lumps . Gates were full of every bike imaginable and racers ranged from guys in work boots/jeans/flannel shirts on stripped down Enduros to shop sponsored guys on the newest bikes we couldn't get . Tracks were rough - little to no prep . Funny , I don't remember all the bitching . We were glad to have places and guys to race . Ahhh , the GOD ( Good Old Days ) of MX .
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Epic post! Pm me your address and I will send you a BC practice pass. If we added a Bitchers class, it would be full.
 
halffast said:
Move up and get beat by a better class of sandbagger , I've always said . Been happening since skill level divisions were made , and always will . There were only bike displacement classes when I started and you took your lumps . Gates were full of every bike imaginable and racers ranged from guys in work boots/jeans/flannel shirts on stripped down Enduros to shop sponsored guys on the newest bikes we couldn't get . Tracks were rough - little to no prep . Funny , I don't remember all the bitching . We were glad to have places and guys to race . Ahhh , the GOD ( Good Old Days ) of MX .
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BriarcliffMx said:
Epic post! Pm me your address and I will send you a BC practice pass. If we added a Bitchers class, it would be full.
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These two posts should have been on page 1. That would have saved us 9 pages of B.S.!
 
adam63 said:
These two posts should have been on page 1. That would have saved us 9 pages of B.S.!
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Back in the 50's you could take your Chevy, Mopar or Ford knock out the glass and add a role bar and race NASCAR. Now its a busine$$. Back in the day we walked up hill both ways to school in the snow and fought off grizzly bears with a loose leaf notebook because we didn't have iphones.

Reminiscing about how things used to be does not fix the issues we face today. So I do not see this as epic or helpful, but heads in the sand. MX is a business at the national level with MX Sports and the AMA which creates this disconnect with local racing.

Only a few people tried to offer ideas and solutions and the rest focused on eliminating the class or reminisced about the days gone by, neither of which are practical.

Now you can see why people lurk here and don't post or participate. And to answer your question CK, the AMA is not listening to this board for the same reasons. At least we got another 10 pages of entertainment. #TheStruggleIsReal Georgie
 
The problem is people want to be champion of the C class. People want nobody to talk about it. Everything turns personal when you bring up the damn C CLASS. nobody wants to fix it. Everytime it's brought up we get the same 10 pages of bull shiit. But nothing happens. Another year passes by and we got 25-30 IN c lining up on the gate and 9-11 in B.

C class doesn't grow our sport. People play in it for five years then they go off and do something else.
 
The best suggestions have been about removing as much subjectivity as possible and establishing more objective standards inside the existing class structures. More classes for the mere appearance of more winners won't help.

Perhaps, if a rider exceeds a standard (pre-established lap times, gap between first and second, jumping big jumps, or ???), they don't earn the win (disqualified for that race) and are promoted to the next class immediately - as soon as second race of the day. Immediate class promotion combined with the risk of disqualification might help encourage registering in the appropriate class.

Just adding a "you were objectively too good for that class you entered and are disqualified for that race" idea.

I don't have a motocross background, raced my first C class race at 50, and am working to get fast enough to leave C class races behind forever. So the above might never work.

I did coach swim teams (180+ kids) to pay my way through college, swam division 1 in college, coached my kid's baseball teams for 12 years, and then their high school swim teams. Somewhere around 20 years and 600+ kids. Objective standards are so helpful.

I'll save my thoughts on win entitlement, jealousy, cheating, false self esteem, parent pressure, drama seekers for another day.
 
There is a caveat : Those who do not learn from their mistakes are doomed to repeat them . That was really the reason for my post , not just for nostalgia .

Now racing has morphed into " Trophies-R-Us " with so many classes that almost everybody finishes " on the box ". So now everybody is happy . Right ? Don't want junior to develop low self-esteem because he gets beat by somebody who is faster , more talented , has better bikes , more experience , etc. or whatever the reason ( welcome to life ). Find a class he can win easily and thrash the crap out of it until he gets kicked out . As stated in my earlier post this has been happening ever since the classes started fragmenting .

Way back when ( here I go again ) , when I got my ass handed to me at the track it torqued me off . So I tried to get better : more practice , working out , better equipment , Gary Bailey MX School , and so on . Unfortunately my talent pool dried up early . There really were no other classes to go to ( until later - too late for me really due to health factors ) except for bike displacement classes . Guess what , the same guys whooping me in 125 , 250 , or open class could pretty well do it in the other classes too . I switched over to mostly harescrambles because stamina and bullheadedness made up for my lack of talent and I was more competitive . No A to Z classes there but on occasion I could best some guys who I knew were faster just because I outlasted them .

My grandfather ( darn my memory) had a saying , " If I ever find anybody I can whip . I'm gonna whip him every day ! " . Our sport may just grow itself into oblivion if we let it .
 
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GeorgiePorgie said:
Connie deals with quite a bit of bs. And somehow keeps her cool even when people get borderline verbally abusive in their opinions about sandbaggers etc.

Is it time to just make it a B/C Class? And eliminate the C Class ? OG44 and I were talking about it at big game Sunday.

Local b/c would cater to the national seekers who race against the best sandbaggers in the country. But it would also eliminate the need to bitch to Connie about a ire said sandbagger (in opinion only)

Connie calmly explained that "said" c rider was within the rules. Angry man proceeded to say "I don't care if he's 14 or 9, he's not a c rider." Told him to call Alex hunter and talk about it. Guy just says we won't come back to race. Dumb.

I think b/c would be the best route to go. But I think all these c riders want their glory top 5s. If you're not racing because you can't finish top 5 you're in it for the wrong reasons. B/C IDEOLOGY may be radical but wouldn't it save Connie a headache?! And wouldn't it push riders to become better, stronger and faster locally?? Which in turn would make our local riders more competitive in the national scene?! Smoking everyone in c class isn't hurting anyone but the guy winning. He has no sense of urgency and then wonders why at a regional he cracks and breaks down halfway through a moto when some other national c rider is breathing down his neck.
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I will not hide behind my screen and username like many of you, (Neil Topovski here), this entire discussion started over my 7th grade/ 13 yr old son #89 Skyler who has less than a dozen big bike races under his belt as a 250C rider. I will make no excuses for my son... yes he raced 50s, 6mos on a 65 and off and on on an 85 and 6mos on a supermini... he suffered many major injuries through out the 85's and lost 2 yrs of racing... he still can race 85's but he is 13 yrs old 5'10" and 160lbs and in perfect physical shape...obviously way too big for a 85 or supermini, so we moved into 250C and schoolboy. I want to clarify for all you ...he does not live at a training facility, he is NOT home schooled, nor is he a factory sponsored rider, he has never made it to LL or even a regional, he does not race a national circuit, we raced 1 at Daytona, and he has only recently spent a wk end or week at a training facility....not to sandbag a local 250c race lol, but to learn to be a safe rider and a more aggressive racer. YES, he does table to table, YES he does the quad at 13...he also completes a rigorous gym workout 4-5X a week, he eats healthier than anyone I know, he also is an A+ honor role student. He is not old enough to race 2 stroke and we have been told by OMA officials that he is not ready for B class, nor is he old enough, so I offer no apologies or excuses for his racing ability or skills after much hard work and dedication to the sport...WE have followed the rules. The guy that threw a fit at Malvern that night his 12 yr old kid who was also in 250c was a completely out of line and was rude and disrespectful to me, my son, Connie, Jason / Tina and all who where at sign up. The BIG question is... was his 12 yr old beginner kid even in the correct class...I think not. We will be happy to stop jumping the table to table and quad for you, but I will not tell my son, to race in 2 gear so some can catch up and feel like they had a chance, there is only 1 winner...look at the results, it is not always us, we are still learning on a big bike. What I say to you.... get off your butts and ride/ train and put down the chips/ twinkies/sodas, unplug the Xbox in the winter and go south and ride. If you all want to feel good about yourself and want your kid to have his self esteem boosted where everyone is a winner and gets a trophy....go join a soccer team and sell your bike. For all you others, watch out next thing they will do is tell you that your fast 50, 65 or 85 rider who is winning and jumping is to move up and slow down because we don't want to hurt anyone's feelings....and you all wonder why people go elsewhere and the sport is dying and local tracks are closing. We will continue to race 250c and schoolboy and we will move up to 250B when we think it is time for our son to do so, at least there are less riders there to complain about it... And shame on those of you that actually call out specific kids in this discussion, mind your own businessNeil Topovski
 
Sorry Neil but your son is NOT a C rider. I was not at Malvern and I do not care if he won, got 10th or last. Nor does it matter if he spent a weekend a week or just drove by a training facility. All that matters is he is not a beginner and by your own admission he is to fast for C. Yes, the AMA has a loophole in the rules allowing riders like your son in the class and they is the bigger issue but there is also a things called sportsmanship and fair play that should be followed by all.
You have brought up a VERY good point, Why are youth riders eligible for Amateur classes? At 13 he is legal for 4 youth AMA classes yet the rules allow for him to ride amateur classes designed for beginners and riders of all ages ABOVE 16. I myself have done this in the past when racing Schoolboy and 125A back in the day. So I am not pointing the finger at any one rider. So there is another rule that really needs to be reviewed.
As far as call at a specific "kid". I guess I don't see the point in that one? You have elected to put your son in a sport where you can not hide behind the "team" (One of the best parts of motocross) yet it bothers some when you say there name? So if he wins any class at LL or some other big event, would you want people to say. "Some kid from our area won."?
oh yeah. Chris Knox is my name and if anyone would like to discuss Anything I have ever posted please look me up at a race near you. I would love to set down with anyone and discuss our fine sport.
 
What would PR be without a C class thread every year? Why does it matter who signs up for whichever class? There's only one 450 and 250 champ and the rest of us are just slower. On any given practice day every big bike is out there with every other big bike cruising around just fine. Add a $5 plaque and people go nuts. I haven't picked up many plaques since I entered 40+. I've gotten 1st and 31st it all depends on who shows up. I measure the weekend by where I finished against my buddies not by who won. To me it's an honor being on the same gate with Gibby or Mad Mike or Hand and yes they're always going to be faster.

It doesn't sound like Neil's son broke any AMA rules. He sounds like a fine young man and if he's doing the table table at Malvern man I'd be the first to give him a high five if he were on my gate. We need to stop thinking about C class as an entry class. It's just another class in a sea of way too many classes.

Want to end sandbagging? Reward people for going faster. Why not ditch the two moto format and have qualifying all day for one main event with a cash payout structure? Or have age level classes only? Or displacement classes only? Or vet only races? Or mini only races? Or a MX race with the GP schedule? That's the type of discussion we should be having.
 
tnt said:
I will not hide behind my screen and username like many of you, (Neil Topovski here), this entire discussion started over my 7th grade/ 13 yr old son #89 Skyler who has less than a dozen big bike races under his belt as a 250C rider. I will make no excuses for my son... yes he raced 50s, 6mos on a 65 and off and on on an 85 and 6mos on a supermini... he suffered many major injuries through out the 85's and lost 2 yrs of racing... he still can race 85's but he is 13 yrs old 5'10" and 160lbs and in perfect physical shape...obviously way too big for a 85 or supermini, so we moved into 250C and schoolboy. I want to clarify for all you ...he does not live at a training facility, he is NOT home schooled, nor is he a factory sponsored rider, he has never made it to LL or even a regional, he does not race a national circuit, we raced 1 at Daytona, and he has only recently spent a wk end or week at a training facility....not to sandbag a local 250c race lol, but to learn to be a safe rider and a more aggressive racer. YES, he does table to table, YES he does the quad at 13...he also completes a rigorous gym workout 4-5X a week, he eats healthier than anyone I know, he also is an A+ honor role student. He is not old enough to race 2 stroke and we have been told by OMA officials that he is not ready for B class, nor is he old enough, so I offer no apologies or excuses for his racing ability or skills after much hard work and dedication to the sport...WE have followed the rules. The guy that threw a fit at Malvern that night his 12 yr old kid who was also in 250c was a completely out of line and was rude and disrespectful to me, my son, Connie, Jason / Tina and all who where at sign up. The BIG question is... was his 12 yr old beginner kid even in the correct class...I think not. We will be happy to stop jumping the table to table and quad for you, but I will not tell my son, to race in 2 gear so some can catch up and feel like they had a chance, there is only 1 winner...look at the results, it is not always us, we are still learning on a big bike. What I say to you.... get off your butts and ride/ train and put down the chips/ twinkies/sodas, unplug the Xbox in the winter and go south and ride. If you all want to feel good about yourself and want your kid to have his self esteem boosted where everyone is a winner and gets a trophy....go join a soccer team and sell your bike. For all you others, watch out next thing they will do is tell you that your fast 50, 65 or 85 rider who is winning and jumping is to move up and slow down because we don't want to hurt anyone's feelings....and you all wonder why people go elsewhere and the sport is dying and local tracks are closing. We will continue to race 250c and schoolboy and we will move up to 250B when we think it is time for our son to do so, at least there are less riders there to complain about it... And shame on those of you that actually call out specific kids in this discussion, mind your own businessNeil Topovski
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You say nor is he old enough....... STRAIGHT FROM THE RULE BOOK so many people bashed me for not reading



"250 B

Ages 12+

122-250cc

Must be 14 to ride 250 2-stroke"

http://omxa.net/racing/classes/

No Offense Neil but Skyler is not your average "C" rider and could compete loacally in "B" class. But thing is once he tries to qualify he will fit right in with all the other "C" riders.

Just look at his finishes from the qualifier. So Neil, i agree with you he is ok in "C" class and you will continue to get bashed for it, and you just have to overlook it and realize "haters gonna hate"
 
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