ck1racerx
PR Addict
Speaking of... What a disappoinent by the turn out for 50+ at chillitown. Dudes on here asking for it, they offered free signup and only got what 4? Or 5? There is one we can cut out of the program
C class struggles.
- Thread starter GeorgiePorgie
- Start date
hershey
PR Elite
I heard the Battle series winner last year wasnt 50.....
TowerGal
PR Founding Father
Correct Crute! It was Scenic Highlands!
TimSr90
PR Addict
If you are out there and not doing the big jumps, and riding with guys who are, your greatest fear is that those who are jumping big will land on you. It's a realistic fear. Restricting jumps for these beginner classes make everybody safer. It may not make sandbaggers advance, but it will reduce their chances of from hurting somebody else, and make it feel a lot more safe and comfortable for newbies. I've also noticed that often, its only the big jumps they do that others won't, that puts them in the front of that class. You take away a sandbagger's air game, and he starts finding that he's got real competition in the class. If he's really got to fight for it on the ground in C class, he might decide its better get his air game back and fight in B class.
Most new guys have no illusions about going out and winning. They just want to race safely without being destroyed and humiliated. Most would be content to race in a C class that stayed closer to the ground.
Of course the only assured way of people advancing is for the beginner class to be non-points. Of course, you'll probably not be able to fill a gate of true beginners on a regular basis, and running them combined with a C class that does not have jump restrictions would defeat the whole purpose, so my suggestion would be C class jump restrictions, (along with other beginner type classes) and then if you wanted to combine beginners and score separately or just have a C, it would be a lot more inviting to beginners.
Most new guys have no illusions about going out and winning. They just want to race safely without being destroyed and humiliated. Most would be content to race in a C class that stayed closer to the ground.
Of course the only assured way of people advancing is for the beginner class to be non-points. Of course, you'll probably not be able to fill a gate of true beginners on a regular basis, and running them combined with a C class that does not have jump restrictions would defeat the whole purpose, so my suggestion would be C class jump restrictions, (along with other beginner type classes) and then if you wanted to combine beginners and score separately or just have a C, it would be a lot more inviting to beginners.
bigbear
Noob
We have been there guys. We went through the finger pointing. And we elected to move up to B. The best way to resolve this sandbagger issue is half way through the season, if you are in the top 3, you get your award and are moved to B. Some parents are worried about the next level. I was. But we found it more competitive and if you can believe this.....safer!!!! I found out that you are not doing your kid any justice if you keep him at a lower level. Your rider can't get any better if they are not being pushed. Good luck!!!
GeorgiePorgie
PR Founding Father
Holding your line. And having faith that the other riders know proper race etiquette is a plus.
But I agree. Restrict the c riders from leaping in any class if they signed up for c that day. Once they bump up. Allow them to jump.
MXracn746
PR Addict
I'm waiting on a new axle for my trailer. Will be here Monday. Should be able to start practicing next weekend hopefully. But that's just me.
Otherwise, I agree with TimSr about C riding.
adam63
PR Addict
Did anybody notice the open B and open C stagger at BC on Sunday? I was watching the moto and noticed the gap between the leader of the open B and open C was shrinking. The open C rider was catching the open B rider every lap except the last one and on the last lap the gap was the same as the prior lap. In my opinion the C rider did not look quite as polished as the B rider, but he was definitely faster. I doubt either was a novice!
Now that I have taken the time to look into the results of the given riders, their results at other events and even other motos don't paint the entire picture. The open C rider in the one particular moto I watched was definitely not a novice based on his speed alone in that one moto.
I had a somewhat random thought about this subject and thread... how about adding another step to the RPV system we are supposed to be using for rider advancement? We as racers make recommendations to the organization as to who we think should be advanced into the next class then allow the organization to make the final call. With the organization armed with some pier evaluations (hand the names to the reff. for that event on that day) they could pay closer attention to their motos and add their own eval. to the riders file. Something like a pier evaluation that is putt in writing, that may be as simple as a small voter box at each event that anyone who is an organization member can place a vote or evaluation for any given rider.
If we used a system similar to this, the members would feel as though they have a voice at least.
Now that I have taken the time to look into the results of the given riders, their results at other events and even other motos don't paint the entire picture. The open C rider in the one particular moto I watched was definitely not a novice based on his speed alone in that one moto.
I had a somewhat random thought about this subject and thread... how about adding another step to the RPV system we are supposed to be using for rider advancement? We as racers make recommendations to the organization as to who we think should be advanced into the next class then allow the organization to make the final call. With the organization armed with some pier evaluations (hand the names to the reff. for that event on that day) they could pay closer attention to their motos and add their own eval. to the riders file. Something like a pier evaluation that is putt in writing, that may be as simple as a small voter box at each event that anyone who is an organization member can place a vote or evaluation for any given rider.
If we used a system similar to this, the members would feel as though they have a voice at least.
RocketRobin
PR Founding Father
I love the transponder racing idea, I want to race against guys that are my speed so it's fun to have a battle of death. One of the reasons that I like LL's type big races is to have those battles of death for a nice long moto even if it's for 25th place because there is always someone there that is my speed exactly, which doesn't happen locally very often. I get my reward from beating a guy that wants it as bad as I do and isn't going to give it to me, take advantage of my mistakes, and be pissed off when he makes a mistake and I take advantage of his. I don't care if it's for a trophy or not, I care about the personal battle I'm having with another guy my speed which is why I would love transponder racing…..
I've been called a "sandbagger" many times because I'm still classified as and AMA "B" rider, yet I have had success at Loretta Lynn's in the past. I'm 46 years old this year and been riding for 41 years now. I just like to have fun, I've been to LL's many times, raced in the back of the VET Classes where the old pros run and had just as much fun doing that as racing towards the front of the Vet B/C class. That's my speed, it's always been there, and no matter how much I ride or train or spend on my bike, I'm within a second of my pace at Loretta Lynn's every time. I'm a fast Vet B pace (usually top 10 speed at LL's), slow Vet "Pro" pace (usually 25 - 30 speed at LL's). I've never raced A class in my life, never tried to make a living racing motorcycles, and just enjoyed riding and racing. I hardly race anymore, but I try to hit a few events here and there. My kids didn't have the bug like I did and pursued other interests. They all have had bikes, and ride when they want to…… none of them are fast or racers at heart, but I hope they enjoy it enough to have fun and ride when they are older to stay in shape and have a fun activity.
The AMA needs to implement the Novice RULE using time period of racing for the C class. People that have raced for 10 years on minis and move to big bikes are not novices on the track and shouldn't be able to ride the "C" class in my book. They are experienced and scare away the new riders which is counterproductive. If you are going to make it in this sport, you'll make it in the B class or A class. No ONE has gone directly from the C class to the professional ranks and succeeded, and that shouldn't ever happen, but in the current rules, that's possible that a child prodigy who is gonna turn pro at 16 will have had the chance to ride "YOUTH" classes only and then some "B/C" and C classes before becoming the next big thing in the current rules depending on the size of the kid at age 14 - 15……
That's my opinion for what it's worth, and I don't have a kid racing at all and am well past my own prime but have been involved in the amateur side of the sport racing for many many years.
I've been called a "sandbagger" many times because I'm still classified as and AMA "B" rider, yet I have had success at Loretta Lynn's in the past. I'm 46 years old this year and been riding for 41 years now. I just like to have fun, I've been to LL's many times, raced in the back of the VET Classes where the old pros run and had just as much fun doing that as racing towards the front of the Vet B/C class. That's my speed, it's always been there, and no matter how much I ride or train or spend on my bike, I'm within a second of my pace at Loretta Lynn's every time. I'm a fast Vet B pace (usually top 10 speed at LL's), slow Vet "Pro" pace (usually 25 - 30 speed at LL's). I've never raced A class in my life, never tried to make a living racing motorcycles, and just enjoyed riding and racing. I hardly race anymore, but I try to hit a few events here and there. My kids didn't have the bug like I did and pursued other interests. They all have had bikes, and ride when they want to…… none of them are fast or racers at heart, but I hope they enjoy it enough to have fun and ride when they are older to stay in shape and have a fun activity.
The AMA needs to implement the Novice RULE using time period of racing for the C class. People that have raced for 10 years on minis and move to big bikes are not novices on the track and shouldn't be able to ride the "C" class in my book. They are experienced and scare away the new riders which is counterproductive. If you are going to make it in this sport, you'll make it in the B class or A class. No ONE has gone directly from the C class to the professional ranks and succeeded, and that shouldn't ever happen, but in the current rules, that's possible that a child prodigy who is gonna turn pro at 16 will have had the chance to ride "YOUTH" classes only and then some "B/C" and C classes before becoming the next big thing in the current rules depending on the size of the kid at age 14 - 15……
That's my opinion for what it's worth, and I don't have a kid racing at all and am well past my own prime but have been involved in the amateur side of the sport racing for many many years.
KX514
PR Member
Rocket is dead on. Racing against people your speed is what it's all about. It doesn't matter what position it is. I'm sure that not everyone has that outlook though.
I like the idea of keeping C riders on the ground on certain obstacles in the track. It's safer for everyone, and it will also lead to some people moving up. However, for that to work, every track would need to do it.
I like the idea of keeping C riders on the ground on certain obstacles in the track. It's safer for everyone, and it will also lead to some people moving up. However, for that to work, every track would need to do it.
TONYBOLOGNA
Noob
I've been reading all this and just taking it all in. My son just got a 125 and decided to hop in the c class Sunday at Briarcliff to get some seat time, only to be absolutely demolished and he isn't what i would call terribly slow just new to the big bike. Congrats to the Fusco boy for totally destroying everyone in the class hands down, here is your trophy son….…time to move to b class….but I won't hold my breath!
TOTALLY DESTROYING EVERYONE...... he battled both motos with people, so on to the next complainer about C class. Heres a idea for everyone, if you dont want sandbaggers in C class, move up to B, then when you get "demolished" atleast u could say it was in B class and maybe you wont feel so bad. This is a never ending debate that you will never fix, people will always find a loop hole in the system.
GeorgiePorgie
PR Founding Father
No that was a Ktm rider. Not John. Name to be unnamed.
GeorgiePorgie
PR Founding Father
See now fusco in my opinion has been gradually progressing. He couldn't move out of his own way a couple years ago. I See him on Instagram and Twitter at these training camps. Which is cool. haven't seen him this year but id venture to say he's still within the rules to be a c rider. And come qualifier time at BC he won't be anywhere near blowing the doors off the field. He wasn't really that competitive on smaller mini bikes. Not bashing him. I'm just saying he is where he should be....he's not sandbagging.
Now getting destroyed is going to happen first year out on big bikes. It's a big change. He will progress. And right now c class is a good class for you guys to see this progression. Keep at it.
TwentyThreeMX
PR Founding Father
IMO if you're spending time a training camps, your probably not a C rider.
John250
PR Founding Father
Both those are correct. My first ever battle race and first ever time at BC. I was told by MANY from D11, that I needed to run the sport class. And looking at who was signed up in the sport class on that day, that was a correct statement. And the winner was far from a C rider.......so that has never happened again. But the Sport class continues to have some sandbaggers. Hell, that's my speed, so I should sign up for it!!