BriarcliffMx
PR Founding Father
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/promoter - I am not responsible for the growth of the sport. I am responsible for what i can sometimes control and that is my facility. Im a promoter, not a pope.
Growing our Sport ?
- Thread starter hershey
- Start date
Woody
PR Addict
I think you are having a hard time seeing the forest for the trees. You can't hyper-focus on getting those cheap-a***s to try racing as "the way to grow the sport". There are plenty of areas to grow the sport.
If it wasn't for the QUALITY of the OMA and tracks such as Malvern, Chillitown, and BC, I for one would be done with Ohio motocross. After years of crappy D-11 and outlaw tracks i was all but done with racing.
With the OMA I went from racing (practicing outside my local track) 1-2 times a year to 10+ events a year. This goes for plenty of my riding buddies too. Sometimes you have to pay up for quality, so be it.
BOOM. GROWTH.
hershey
PR Elite
And that is why the growth of the sport will be hampered. You see a smart businessman knows that the sport supports his track. He realizes that if he cares about the sport outside of his track then his track will prosper. You dont need to be the Pope to understand and help that. Bringing in new blood to YOUR track grows the sport, give new blood ( in my original post Im talking about PW and new 50 / 65 beginners on the pee wee track ) a cheap alternative that doesnt cost you any real time or money to tracks that scare them away with costs or low value for their money. Like time said, your luke warm average joe rider not familiar with the sport arent going to spend big money until they see why they should ... ie....get hooked.
YES!!!! That is growth. But you are a racer who already understands the value of what you get for your money. That is why the OMA has drawn you BACK INTO racing. Quality tracks for your hard earned money to be spent on.
And yes you can ... "" You can't hyper-focus on getting those cheap-a***s to try racing as "the way to grow the sport"...."" That is how business marketing and sales works. You zone in on a specific segment of people you want to sell to and focus on their needs or desires to sell them your product. Once you master that segment you move on to the next one on the list. That is how businesses grow. That is how MX should grow. My idea was to try and get a few tracks that already have pee wee tracks that require extremely low maintenance to offer a reduced practice fee for that track only. Draw in the new PW riders or others that ride on that track a cheap option to see what the sport is about. Once they get hooked they will come to races and spend big money, they will introduce their friends to the sport.
Your average joe who knows nothing of the sport isnt going to spend $100 to bring the family to the track just out of curiosity. They will spend that $100 on something they already know the value of.
You can lead that dead horse we are beating to the water and it wont only not drink, it will die a horrible death.
ck1racerx
PR Addict
Yesterday I sold my son's Cobra (Thank GOD) to a young father. He was buying the bike for his daughter. He also has a young son who already has a bike. I asked if he has plans form them to race. His answer was a resounding NO!. So I asked why. "It costs too much to take the family to a race just to ride for 20 minuets (Which at our current rate is about double what you actually get.) on a hard pack dust bowl, when he can go to Jim Bob's house and ride all day.
I wanted to have a come back but since he was dead on, I shock hand and said good luck and thanks.
I wanted to have a come back but since he was dead on, I shock hand and said good luck and thanks.
nitrofish
PR Addict
First off why would he buy a Cobra with no plans to race? Next, the sport is about family time spent together. So maybe he is fine with letting juniorette ride at jimbobs while mom or other family members do their own thing. Most miss the point. I enjoy the time at the track with my family and friends. I'm free of the rat race of the outside world, phones, iPads and the superficial relationships of social media. My family is worth every penny no matter the track time. I'm sure if we were home I'd be Choppin' wood, mom networking and the boy off in the trails. Moto was the glue that kept my parents and I in touch back in the day, I don't ever remember them complaining.
BriarcliffMx
PR Founding Father
OH THANK YOU GUYS! NOW IM GOING TO BE UBER SUCCESSFUL!!!!!!!!!!!
Here this whole time I just needed to ask Hershey and Knox. I totally wasted the last 10 years. So now that I will be increasing my margins 20%, and meanwhile growing the sport into a mainstream phenomenon, I will be sending you both a royalty check. I cant believe I have been so shallow in my search for making Briarcliff a success. Thanks super smart old guys!
Here this whole time I just needed to ask Hershey and Knox. I totally wasted the last 10 years. So now that I will be increasing my margins 20%, and meanwhile growing the sport into a mainstream phenomenon, I will be sending you both a royalty check. I cant believe I have been so shallow in my search for making Briarcliff a success. Thanks super smart old guys!
hershey
PR Elite
Yep. Nailed it.
Not one person in this thread has claimed you or any other track on here is a failure, or that you havent done a good job of promoting your track. But the issue I brought up is growing the sport for beginning mini riders. An idea to help grow that segment of the sport for now and the future. Some get it and some dont. JO, you are the man. You have one hell of a great thing going at BC. And you take decent care of your pee wee track. Others in the area not so much. This isnt to bag on any pee wee track at all and it isnt a complaint like some want to think it is. Its a simple possible business model and you either dont understand it, dont want to try it or your just too defensive to think about the possibility. No matter the reason its no big deal, never was. People will still spend their money on it and people will continue to support you and other places with pee wee tracks.
Carry on.
John250
PR Founding Father
I see you took my advise on the Cobra. I am assuming Junior is going to be a dirt country on a new KTM. Smart move.
Not sure why anyone would buy a headache called a Cobra to not race. Does he know what he is signing up for?
BriarcliffMx
PR Founding Father
"And that is why the growth of the sport will be hampered"
I'm fairly certain that our sport has grown at least in my area. Heck we have two tracks going within 15 minutes of each other. Both facilities have multiple tracks to help "grow the sport". I think you've lost your mind because your kids ride 50s. I cant wait to hear how the lack 65cc track time on the big track hampers the growth of the sport in about 3-4 years.
I'm fairly certain that our sport has grown at least in my area. Heck we have two tracks going within 15 minutes of each other. Both facilities have multiple tracks to help "grow the sport". I think you've lost your mind because your kids ride 50s. I cant wait to hear how the lack 65cc track time on the big track hampers the growth of the sport in about 3-4 years.
ck1racerx
PR Addict
Americans just can not make a motorcycle. Going to talk to Kirk tomorrow. I need more Orange in my life. 16's should be in any day.
JO maybe your track and a few more are doing fine, that is not the whole story. Eliminate the bs rule that allows people to ride 54 different classes per day and tell me more people race today then they did in years past. 15 years ago if you would have told any racer that Kenworthy would close soon they would have laughed at you. It may not be the main reason for it closing but when they moved the little bikes to that POS back track, attendance went down. Anything can happen.
As you have playing in your dirt pile for 10 years, I have been doing it for the past 42 years. And I still learn more every year. Thanks for being one of the few owners / promoters to read and reply to anything on this site but don't forget we have to build the sport everywhere for it to continue. The only pee wee tracks within 50 miles of my house are either rock hard and or 75 feet long
BriarcliffMx
PR Founding Father
I started racing in 1983, not nearly as long as you obviously, but I have observed it with many different eyes. I have seen it as kid where all I cared about was riding every single day till it got dark, I have seen it with competitve eyes, where all I wanted to do is win. I have seen with I dont care about winning anymore eyes, where i want to do is ride and be safe (make it home and work the next day). I have seen it with promoter/business man eyes, where i want to grow a business and see Ohio's motocross heritage continue.
I will take on any volunteer that wants to spend Qualifier week with me getting ready, if you survive that, then I will let you come along for a few other rides. I think once you see what is involved with being a promoter, you might have a different outlook on the situation.
Its easy to run someone elses business or spend other peoples money. Hershey hit me up for ideas on how i can expand Canal Fulton Electrical Contractors, I'm taking you guys global. I think your missing the spanish mexican market, are your employees bilingual?? They need to be so you can grow it, you have to grow it.
I will take on any volunteer that wants to spend Qualifier week with me getting ready, if you survive that, then I will let you come along for a few other rides. I think once you see what is involved with being a promoter, you might have a different outlook on the situation.
Its easy to run someone elses business or spend other peoples money. Hershey hit me up for ideas on how i can expand Canal Fulton Electrical Contractors, I'm taking you guys global. I think your missing the spanish mexican market, are your employees bilingual?? They need to be so you can grow it, you have to grow it.
TimSr90
PR Addict
Nobody was bashing BC or any othe promoter, and the things I pointed out are problems with the industry in general. Nobody is telling you how to run your business. This thread is not about BC. It is about the sport of MX. BC may be the entire MX world on pitracer.com these days, but other aspects of the sport do exist. I'm hopeful that you privately think about these things, even though you seem to take it personally on the forum. Thats why I hate posting frank observations. If they don't agree with the accepted wisdom of the clique, people get upset. I can't think of a simpler explanation for the difference between growing the sport and growing your share of the sport. I don't know if people really don't understand, or they pretend to not understand for the sake of arguing.
BC runs events well. You have earned a significant share of the sport. Your piece of the MX pie is large and getting larger. Its getting too large to put on your plate. Congratulations! It means you are beating your competitors, which are the other promoters. As you beat the competition, their pieces of the pie get smaller to make yours larger. THE PIE IS NOT GETTING ANY BIGGER. Your share is. As much as they won't admit it, the business desire to crush the competition rather than augment it exists with some, so there is no incentive to make the pie bigger.
Its a luxury to have the best and the greatest so you can cherry pick your patrons to those who provide the better margin. That works great until the cherry tree starts dying. (D12)
Truth is I see very few promoters who see growing the sport as a potential for more patrons. Most are too busy trying to get the riders from somebody else's track to come to theirs. Everybody wants a bigger piece of the pie. Nobody wants to make the pie bigger, because some of the beneifits might go to a competitor. I've heard many on this forum suggesting shutting down tracks that don't get the attendance with the idea that it will force these riders to supposedly "better run" tracks. Is this "growing the sport" or re-arranging it, or killing it when you learn you can't move riders like furnature?
BC will probably always be managing such a large slice of the pie that growing the sport won't be of much benefit to BC specifically. It is the tracks who are losing share because they are not particularly attractive to the well funded serious racers that want want to run nationals who would do better to tap into the untapped non-racing rider market. Entry level tracks to get people into the sport are in short supply, and the ones that do exist often shoot themsleves in the foot by trying to model their operations after the tracks who have little interest or patience with entry level racers and track curious trail riders. At the same time it would helpful if those serious AMA national oriented operations would get over the fantasy that their ridership originates from guys who have never raced before coming in with professional grade equipment and gear, and plunking down the gate, entry, and AMA and OMA sanction fees to do their first MX race at a national qualifier because they read on pitracer that it was gonna be worth every dime.
Since making the sport grow always results in denial that it's not growing, maybe we should talk about what is killing the sport and we can discuss those events that were not so successful after the "cater to the clique" ideology was applied.
BC runs events well. You have earned a significant share of the sport. Your piece of the MX pie is large and getting larger. Its getting too large to put on your plate. Congratulations! It means you are beating your competitors, which are the other promoters. As you beat the competition, their pieces of the pie get smaller to make yours larger. THE PIE IS NOT GETTING ANY BIGGER. Your share is. As much as they won't admit it, the business desire to crush the competition rather than augment it exists with some, so there is no incentive to make the pie bigger.
Its a luxury to have the best and the greatest so you can cherry pick your patrons to those who provide the better margin. That works great until the cherry tree starts dying. (D12)
Truth is I see very few promoters who see growing the sport as a potential for more patrons. Most are too busy trying to get the riders from somebody else's track to come to theirs. Everybody wants a bigger piece of the pie. Nobody wants to make the pie bigger, because some of the beneifits might go to a competitor. I've heard many on this forum suggesting shutting down tracks that don't get the attendance with the idea that it will force these riders to supposedly "better run" tracks. Is this "growing the sport" or re-arranging it, or killing it when you learn you can't move riders like furnature?
BC will probably always be managing such a large slice of the pie that growing the sport won't be of much benefit to BC specifically. It is the tracks who are losing share because they are not particularly attractive to the well funded serious racers that want want to run nationals who would do better to tap into the untapped non-racing rider market. Entry level tracks to get people into the sport are in short supply, and the ones that do exist often shoot themsleves in the foot by trying to model their operations after the tracks who have little interest or patience with entry level racers and track curious trail riders. At the same time it would helpful if those serious AMA national oriented operations would get over the fantasy that their ridership originates from guys who have never raced before coming in with professional grade equipment and gear, and plunking down the gate, entry, and AMA and OMA sanction fees to do their first MX race at a national qualifier because they read on pitracer that it was gonna be worth every dime.
Since making the sport grow always results in denial that it's not growing, maybe we should talk about what is killing the sport and we can discuss those events that were not so successful after the "cater to the clique" ideology was applied.
John250
PR Founding Father
This thread has got way off track. Hershey made ONE point. If a track has a pee wee track that is off in the corner that the track does not really spend money or maintenance on, but its there for PWs then, why charge the $25? Charge $10 and try to get that kid with the mini bike in his garge to come out and ride. He sees people on the big track, gets the bug and returns.
Simple concept. Seems to have got lost in the mix.
Simple concept. Seems to have got lost in the mix.
BriarcliffMx
PR Founding Father
Im not saying anyone is bashing BC, my responses were to merely point out that I must havent gotten here somehow......and it wasnt because of poor planning or poor instinct.
We do water and drag the PW track, we do spend money on it. Maybe not the same the other tracks at our facility, but its not off in the corner defunct. To be perfectly honest, if the price weeds out a few and keeps the track from be over-run with kids, hey thats fine. Its not like its a massive track capable of having 30 kids on it. I could always remove the track altogether and just split time on the c track. Then the parents will have to actually deal with their kids every 30 minutes when there isnt a place to just let them roam! The price is the price. This is my final post in this massive waste of my time.
We do water and drag the PW track, we do spend money on it. Maybe not the same the other tracks at our facility, but its not off in the corner defunct. To be perfectly honest, if the price weeds out a few and keeps the track from be over-run with kids, hey thats fine. Its not like its a massive track capable of having 30 kids on it. I could always remove the track altogether and just split time on the c track. Then the parents will have to actually deal with their kids every 30 minutes when there isnt a place to just let them roam! The price is the price. This is my final post in this massive waste of my time.
hershey
PR Elite
Yes John259, you are correct.
Tim, it is completely pointless. The clique that some seem to always refer to I would assume includes myself and JO to some extent. We arent in the original group but we are long time high post members. That doesnt seem to be glue holding anything together!
Nobody has ever claimed anything to the contrary and actually some including myself have complimented you on this
This part of your post right here says everything about your attitude towards your customers. With a business mission statement like that you will go far. I really thought you were better than this.
Im truly sorry I even started this post, and to think an honest post about one simple way to help the sport we all love grow could attract so much anger tells me that MX may look healthy in our area but there is a cancer underneath.
nitrofish
PR Addict
Don't be sorry Dave. It gets us all thinking. We are all passionate about the sport and it shows, if that is some sort of clique, I'm good with that. Remember how fired up y'all would get me bashing my little quad rider a couple years ago. Lol! I can't speak for other kid tracks because we have not rode any except for BC and( Fastraxx on Wednesday practice on the SX track).Oh and Route 62. They are all good, fun, maintained tracks. No, they may not get the attention like the big tracks but they don't require it either. I am still a firm believer that full price for our riders pays for the experience of it all as well. We still drive on the driveway, use the porta johns, use the trash cans.When we sign that waiver the insurance companies don't care where you ride either. We have a good thing going in Ohio. The races we have attended this year show a good population of youth riders. And as the vets keep making babies the supply of newbies will continue! Take a day off and go make little racers. I'm just going to practice, I like the practice but I'm done with making racers.
I'm going to chime in on this subject just because of the talk about tracks have 50 tracks and price crap. I believe all the 50 tracks should be leveled and made into nothing but a turn track.. The idea of the 50 track is good but its not the BIG track and the conditions you face when on it (ruts, jump faces and the steepness of the obstacles. So as the kids get better on the 50 track and think they are ready for the first race well guess what.. It's back to square one because of the obstacles. Trust me on this I have twins riding 50's. I will not go to a track if they will not let them on the big track.
To help this sport is where this topic started and I think it can be. First get good b and a riders when they are on break from practicing on practice days to come out to the big track in different corners, jumps, and help the kids and talk to them. Just little pointers. There was one young man that is a fast superminis rider took the time out of his race day to talk to one of my twins to help him and to this day he gets more excited to see that he's at the same track as he is and goes right up and talks. And he hasn't missed a moto that he has raced yet. Doing this will also help the sport by showing that these b and a riders aren't just arrogant a holes... Next when the 50's are on the big track it don't have to be the same amount of time as the big bikes..... 15 min is long enough for them anything longer and there gonna get hurt and you don't need that.
JO we where at the LLAQ and it was are first time being there. I will say you have a supreme motocross track the best I've been to in a very long time minus Red Bud. It's safe, it has
great flow and I saw racing in all the classes. You have a plan for your business YOU stick to it and don't let anybody steer you off it. The one thing that I see from you on this site is you take offense to everything said... Take it as a compliment. At least they are talking about your track and they all should be cause it is first class. By the way we will be coming to BC a lot more!
Chris
To help this sport is where this topic started and I think it can be. First get good b and a riders when they are on break from practicing on practice days to come out to the big track in different corners, jumps, and help the kids and talk to them. Just little pointers. There was one young man that is a fast superminis rider took the time out of his race day to talk to one of my twins to help him and to this day he gets more excited to see that he's at the same track as he is and goes right up and talks. And he hasn't missed a moto that he has raced yet. Doing this will also help the sport by showing that these b and a riders aren't just arrogant a holes... Next when the 50's are on the big track it don't have to be the same amount of time as the big bikes..... 15 min is long enough for them anything longer and there gonna get hurt and you don't need that.
JO we where at the LLAQ and it was are first time being there. I will say you have a supreme motocross track the best I've been to in a very long time minus Red Bud. It's safe, it has
great flow and I saw racing in all the classes. You have a plan for your business YOU stick to it and don't let anybody steer you off it. The one thing that I see from you on this site is you take offense to everything said... Take it as a compliment. At least they are talking about your track and they all should be cause it is first class. By the way we will be coming to BC a lot more!
Chris