As the season comes to an end, something the promoters need to think about.
- Thread starter WishfulThinking
- Start date
MikeB21
PR Addict
So the promoter takes a hit by loosing about 4000 bucks(according to the numbers that you provided)...just to reduce the number of classes.
So let's say this...for example... the B class...you have a full gate with a wide range of riders(anyone from 16-50+ and anyone else that's not A or C) going off at the same time.
Tell me what's the difference between that and having 3,4 or 5 classes on the gate at the same time with a staggered start? Nothing. Still rubbing elbows with the same guys.
You really don't have to cut classes...just run them all on the same gate and make it 2 motos 8 laps. This is what your saying.
The only thing that you are doing is sticking it to the promoter when you cut the classes down.
Classes=$$$ plan and simple.
Maybe you should take a 36.2% pay cut and see if it effect you.
ck1racerx
PR Addict
Since we have at least 3 different promoter / owners reading, please tell me why you want my $25 for practice all day and that is enough but my $45 (one sign-up and two through the gate) for a 10 min race is not enough so you have to add more classes to pull another $25 out of my pocket for 8 more minuets????
ck1racerx
PR Addict
The difference? How about the "awards"? If it is one class the promoter buys one set of trophies. Putting 3 classes together on the gate and you still have to buy 3 sets of trophies. + a first place trophy cost much more then a dinky 6th place trophy.
Then there is the variable expense of time. Reducing the number of classes by 50% and increasing the laps by 25% means you are using less hours for your event. Employees get paid by the hour. If I could reduce by workforce's total hours by 25% and still get the same product, I would be a superhero.
I don't want to cut the promoters profit. Its all about efficiency.
Look, Rt. 62 is taking a bold step by offering a youth only race. They are willing to try something different. Will it be a huge success? I don't know. I sure hope. but the point is they are trying something. If it does not work then OK. But then at least you have the answer to the "what if?". BTW, thanks Lonnie.
MalvernMX
Guest
That is simple. Practice has none of these costs- sign up and scoring staff $650 , ambulance $900, flaggrs $1600, awards $1200, announcer $125, staging and gate dropper $200, insurance $600 difference minimum, I'm sure I'm missing more.
I thought you said you used to be involved in running a track????
I thought you said you used to be involved in running a track????
MikeB21
PR Addict
Soooo...your saying that the promoters are not efficient enough...that's why you want to cut classes...? And just to get more track time!
ck1racerx
PR Addict
I do what I can.
BriarcliffMx
PR Founding Father
Racing us a huge gamble in my opinion already. If I handed you 5-6k (cheap local race), and said I want you to gamble on whether it rains 8 months from now, that's essentially what its like to run races. Now if I said here's a few hundred bucks, now lets gamble on practice a week out, oh and you only have to pay more if you actually run it. Its a massive difference in stress, organization of people, and time out of your life. Now no lie here, if I thought I could get 600 for races every time, and it was on a qualifier pay scale, I would run 4 races per year, 6 practice weekends, and call it good. However, that's not happening. Practice is just way easier for the money. You don't see the pure volume of the qualifier or Battle, but my spring series, by the time everything was paid, I made as much as a good practice weekend. 10x the work, stress, time, and about 4 other factors. For that you can keep your gate money or whatever. I know the sport is expensive, but in my opinion, if the racers don't start paying for the extra time and expense that promoters see on a weekly basis, the local every week races will continue to decline.
MxFreedom33
PR Elite
This is what I mean by cry babies.... Get out in front of the kid and you wont need to worry about it.. MAYBE have one VET class or an OPEN class... But then youd complain about a faster VET guy then you and blah blah blah.. Cant make everyone happy. Want a safe sport, go play chess.
ck1racerx
PR Addict
Yeap family owned and ran a D-11 racers for about 15 years.
Our ambulance was free. Any volunteer fire department will be happy to spend the day with you are the races. The only cost is if they have to make a run. Other then that we would give the two a $100 each for just coming out.
Our flaggers were all family so that was free also. But current tracks.. pay them $10 an hour, give them a free lunch and you will have more then enough "apply" to work. And as for the number... well Dirt country has 5 covering the entire track and they are worthless. nevertheless that would be $80 each X 10 if its a big track =$800.
Oh, I forgot the scoring staff. Let me start by saying the girls at Chilitown are fantastic. But this has to be the one area that I see more over staffed then any other. 20 years ago my mother aunt and sister ran sign-up and scoring at most of the D-11 tracks including Kenworthy back when 500 riders was the average. and this was pen and paper times. Short lines, quick results and they made $100 each. Now the extremes are even worse. Go to Chilitown and they are 10 girls running around working there butts off and the lines out the tent. Then a week later you go to DMC and they have one old fat biker dude setting next to a computer that you swipe your card, pick your class and pay the guy. No line and your done in 15 seconds. I guess you need the extra girls when you run an OMA event with the extra 37 pages of releases and "organization" membership documents you have to fill out. HAHA could not help myself. Had to get a poke in.
Now the gate drop guy.. Pay him double. He is the guy that keep the program rolling.
Yes, I am having fun with some of this but the point is there are ways to reduce overhead, increase efficiency and make more money. Like cut half the classes and thus cut the number of awards by half saving you $600. Then the riders get more laps per moto and more bang for there buck
Strouble
PR Addict
Someone else that understands the strains of staging. If we wouldn't have had my brother Dan at RT. 62...we would not have been a "B" rating.
When you have a good staging person...it makes that entire race program that much better. A gate/staging person takes on a mound and a half of work and can make or break the program.
Hopefully it is true that Malvern gave him a raise to $200 as stated...well deserved. I would say $300 for big events.
Original44
PR Addict
Personally, I don't know how the tracks promoters are still charging what they do. With inflation rising over the years the tracks are still charging about the same amount they have for years. I would love to see less classes. Less classes would equal fuller gates, hopefully longer practices and one or two more laps per moto. If the promoters did that, I would say they would have to charge more per entry fee, probably around 50 bucks per class. The racers would be happy because they would have fuller gates, longer moto's and the track promoters will be happy because they will be making more money. Yeah right, you know that would never happen.
So everybody flame on! Keep complaining, but at the end of the year nothings going to change. Oh one thing probably will change there will be less tracks open for racing next year and we will all be scratching our head saying what happened.
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TwentyThreeMX
PR Founding Father
non moto friends always ask why havent i / when im going to open up my own track to run.. I just laugh. I could never have the energy or time to deal with the amount of bitching and complaining and know it alls. No input to the subject, other than hats off to any of the promoters hanging in there and giving us a a place to ride. If i want to race Ill find a class to ride. If I want to race then ill expect that day to be gone and dont care if i leave at 3 or 7. put down the keyboards and go ride your dirt bikes, dannnggg
BriarcliffMx
PR Founding Father
LOL, I tried a volunteer squad a couple times......then they didn't show once....once. I know what your saying, but this truly is a different time. I have people that blow me off and they are set to make a $100 to sit in a chair all day. It happened like 4 times this year. I think each morning of every race day, I either had people late or no show. I have been weeding through people, and we are getting down to a great core group. However, its not as simple as you describe. We spend roughly $4500 a weekend on flaggers, sign up, scoring and medical staff. Add another 2-3k for Qualie or ATV National type events, BUT that's what it cost to do it the Briarcliff way. Our way isn't the only way, but I feel its the way to keep a great staff coming back to help us out. The core group we have is the best. I wouldn't trade them for any team at a National anywhere.
And the comparison about DMC and Chillitown. Are you kidding? What kind of turnouts are we comparing? what like 150 at DMC, and 500-700 at CT. Ummmm, yea my kids could run sign up at DMC. I beg you to start a track. If you do I will sponsor it. Heck I will give you inside sponsor contacts. I love me a good train wreck.
GeorgiePorgie
PR Founding Father
You couldn't do it because that would mean you are doing things for other people. Stacy is at the point of his pyramid, everything else is underneath.
As far as announcing, it pisses me off when the announcer won't repeat calls atleast twice Everytime he calls.
"Well you weren't paying attention"
No. I was. It's just you keep calling when the mass of bikes rolls by the microphone. So it sounds like: "moto number bumbrarahrhahwhhehahehahehahehaheb tonthebkine to the gate. Silence."
Malvern battle practice was just like this. Nobody knew who he hell was on the track. Especially guys parked in the field.
Some people no matter where in the facility will hear that. If you repeat 2-3 times in the same call EVERYONE hears you.
ck1racerx
PR Addict
My track would run so good you would have to call it a happening or an Occurance. Whatever is better than an event.
Ok. Seriously can we loose a few classes? It does not have to be to my degree but atleast under 20. That way was can get a couple more minutes of track time?
Keep all the classes if you want for the big races since they are two day events.
Btw. From a rider stand point I would say the new format for the battle series was great. How did the numbers turnout and any feedback from all the others?
Oh. And for the people saying "if you don't like it, don't race". See that's not an option. We are racers. We were here long before you got here and we will be here long after your gone.
Ok. Seriously can we loose a few classes? It does not have to be to my degree but atleast under 20. That way was can get a couple more minutes of track time?
Keep all the classes if you want for the big races since they are two day events.
Btw. From a rider stand point I would say the new format for the battle series was great. How did the numbers turnout and any feedback from all the others?
Oh. And for the people saying "if you don't like it, don't race". See that's not an option. We are racers. We were here long before you got here and we will be here long after your gone.