2015 By the numbers
- Thread starter ck1racerx
- Start date
nitrofish
PR Addict
Too bad we can't act like kids again. Seems like more and more is expected as you age, yet this middle entitled generation expects the catering to themselves only. Now, I could bring up the old days of Moto and relish in the past but why? The world is a whole different deal and continues to evolve. I don't recall counting class numbers, track prep, length of race days and what not. What I recall is the bond I shared with my dad who worked 70+ hours a week and the most time we spent together was at a track. I recall Charlie Weaver in his unbuttoned plaid shirt, chest hair hanging out, plowing the track, hoping he wouldn't roll the relic of a tractor on himself. RIP. Point is, if you are so upset of class structure or what not, you are missing just the point. Knox, your numbers are insightful and time consuming I'm sure. Hershey, relax and enjoy the ride with the youngins. You both offer a great deal to the sport yet you spend your time critiquing the days instead of enjoying the moment. We've been doing this for 7 years now and it gets better every year. OMA has gave us a new found devotion to the sport when it was needed. I don't pay attention to the numbers in each class or the amount of classes in a day, I spend my time enjoying the moment. I've never heard my son complain about the day, track prep, amount of classes or what not. He just loves to race, track pals and the memories. It would be great to be a kid again!
Route 62 mx park
PR Addict
Thank you sir. The Ohio MX future is bright for sure. 2 guys stepped up and are making things happen I for one could not even imagine the countless hours they both have spent behind the scenes getting the OMA up and running. Most just see the things going on during race day and don't think about the time it took to make this happen. To Jeremy and Jason.. Thank you both for all your efforts!!
hershey
PR Elite
JO
I dont recall attacking you in any fashion, please point out where I did??? We have known each other for years now and you know anything I say on here I have always been able to say to your face or any one else for that matter. Have I ever acted like I was attacking you then? No. Typing on a keyboard makes it very difficult to convey emotion. Im straight forward and a bit of a smart ass, you know this. You also know that Im honest and down to earth. So why is it that DHDS01 statement about being scared by the low rider turn out numbers brings out the worst of you on here?
Sure the limited class structure topic is over hashed but who has really given it a serious try? Remember the original OMA think tank? Prior to starting they asked what we wanted in a new organization, the biggest response was MORE SEAT TIME. And they said they were going to deliver. And the KOC idea was brilliant! Why not try it on a normal practice day with heat races instead of timing? No extra flaggers, 2 people at the scoring tower and a starter need for an hour or so. The best part is it will give practicers a chance at getting hooked on racing!!! If you dont want to try either thats fine, I am not saying you are wrong for not. My only point to those suggestions was TRY ANYTHING DIFFERENT. The same ole thing isnt working! It doesnt matter how many tracks join the OMA, the organization is offering the same old business model the other Ohio organizations have. Give nonracing riders a reason to try racing!!!
If we talk about the downfall of D11 or CRA yet the OMA offers the same racing strategy how can anyone believe the OMA will do any better? I know being a rider/ racer and back yard track owner does not make me a promoter but neither does being a promoter make a person a businessman. Offering the same product as a sinking ship is a bad business model. Im not suggesting creating an entire new system but just offering a little better prep isnt going to entice new racers to tracks. Isnt that what everybody really wants here?
Nitrofish, you are correct. It is about time with friends and family at the track doing what we all enjoy together. That is the reason I go and trust me I am relishing the time with my son and family! You see me at the tracks and what Im doing. And you are also correct that you, me and most all of the CURRENT racers couldnt really care any less about the money and time spent at the races. But what about the riders who arent at the races? Those are the riders, the future racers, that need to be enticed to the tracks to help keep our loved sport alive. How do we as a group help offer them something they want in order to come to the races? The rider base is out there, look at the weekday practices. How many riders are at Smith rd, Applecabin, Malvern, Briarcliff, RT62, Beans and Ytown mx on a weekly basis that we never see at the local races? Hundreds. Some are at multiple tracks but many arent. And being around the pits and races since 1988 I have heard about every reason to race and not to race. Personally I LOVE racing. Im not into just practicing, I do it to keep fresh and try to improve for racing. Time is the biggest factor for me not being at the track more often. 2 young kids, a house and large yard to care for, a business to run and daily life eat up too much of my time to take up every sat and sunday. Even just 6am to 7pm on a sunday can be too much.
The 4 largest and most consistent reasons I hear people use who dont race much or at all are:
1. Time
2. Money
3. Not enough seat time
4. Classes are too small
Those are in no particular order. So what can you control or change to make these things a smaller obstacle for riders/racers to overcome? I know we "Dingleberries" dont know our ass from a hole in the ground but we make suggestions. We are then told we dont know how to promote. Remember it was us "Dingleberries" on this board who suggested racing quads on saturday for the battle series to help shorten the day. It was initially blown off like all the other suggestions we make. Now where is that idea? Everyone loves it. CTMX did it for their Halloween race even. I personally suggested running the slow beginner 50 kids on saturday with the quads. What happened there? CTMX did it at the Halloween race and it worked fantastic! So just maybe the "Dingleberries" on here know a little something about what WE riders/racers want. Both addressed the time issue and racers were happy all around!
Im really interested to see the OMA numbers without the battle series races in the mix. Those races are special and you guys did your home work on promoting them. By far the best Ohio races in years! On the other hand the normal sunday races dont seem to be any better than the others in Ohio. OIR stopped holding races this year because of low turnouts. Briarcliff doesnt hold any races other than the Battle and LL area quali..... I bet because they dont make money like a normal practice day because of low turnouts. A rider in this thread specifically said he stopped racing CRA because he was racing 5 guys all the time. Are the normal sunday races in OMA really any better? Why would he come to any OMA race if they arent?
It is great to see RT62 trying new things, mini only races, no gate fee for racers and his indoor winter series for 85cc and under is a massive success regardless of what was posted earlier about catering to specific groups not working. CTMX is out of control with trying new and innovative things that others shoot down and say cant work. The track continually grows its attendance even though they use transponders for their races. Each time you go to the facility the track is changed, there are new activities for families/ kids to participate in. Many food, bike part and clothing vendors at each race. Where are the vendors at BC and the other tracks? Bring them in! It costs you NOTHING and I know most tracks charge a small fee for them to have a spot. Let them in free if you have to, they add a big race feel.
Where and when are the OMA monthly meetings? Im sure all of you do this to make sure the organization is on the same path and growing in the direction you all want as a group. Are they open to us members? Maybe some of us should attend and see how the ship is being steered. Maybe it would calm down the wolves so to speak. Or maybe the meeting minutes could be posted for members to read and see what direction the organization is headed? We could learn from them as much as you do. Who is the president, VP , secretary and treasurer? Who would a member contact with questions and concerns?
I am far from attacking any one or any track here! I am worried for the sport I love. I dont see new racers coming out to support our tracks so that we can continue to race them, and yes the numbers do not lie. They arent coming. Does anyone on here think the average attendance numbers are good??? What do we as a group do? The dingleberries can only make suggestions about what we hear and want, and the ones that dont post here but read might not agree with some of us but they also might not agree with you either. The point of this thread was to show real numbers about racers, tracks and organizations. Highly useful information that shows the pluses and minuses in our area. Ohio racing isnt growing as much as some would lead us to believe. Its not dead, its not sinking but it certainly isnt thriving. So do we sit by and settle for what it is or do we make an effort to grow it much more than it is? A few of us want the latter.
Personally I have put my money where my mouth is, I have offered up my track and what little teaching I can help with for beginning 50cc riders all next summer one day a week for FREE at my track at home. I ask that everyone spread the word about it also! I want a group doing this not just a couple kids. Once a year I spend aprox $3000 of my own hard earned money to throw down a one day riding party for riders to enjoy for FREE. I always welcome people I know to ride here all year for a fun free place to ride. Sure my track isnt an par with any OMA track or others that are racing regularly but if you have been here to ride it is challenging and fun. 1:30 lap times and jumps as big as anything at any local track and even bigger than most yet still very safe. Davefest prep is pretty damn good too. I have 2 tractors and a watering system. My point being Im not just your average rider bitching about stuff. And honestly Im never actually bitching, Im making suggestions to try and help our sport. I dont get mad if people dont listen or dont like them, everyone is different. But I make suggestions, I tell people what Im thinking and dont talk behind their back. I offer my track and help as much as possible, I love our sport and only want others to enjoy it to the biggest extent they can.
If that makes me DHDS01 then so be it.
I dont recall attacking you in any fashion, please point out where I did??? We have known each other for years now and you know anything I say on here I have always been able to say to your face or any one else for that matter. Have I ever acted like I was attacking you then? No. Typing on a keyboard makes it very difficult to convey emotion. Im straight forward and a bit of a smart ass, you know this. You also know that Im honest and down to earth. So why is it that DHDS01 statement about being scared by the low rider turn out numbers brings out the worst of you on here?
Sure the limited class structure topic is over hashed but who has really given it a serious try? Remember the original OMA think tank? Prior to starting they asked what we wanted in a new organization, the biggest response was MORE SEAT TIME. And they said they were going to deliver. And the KOC idea was brilliant! Why not try it on a normal practice day with heat races instead of timing? No extra flaggers, 2 people at the scoring tower and a starter need for an hour or so. The best part is it will give practicers a chance at getting hooked on racing!!! If you dont want to try either thats fine, I am not saying you are wrong for not. My only point to those suggestions was TRY ANYTHING DIFFERENT. The same ole thing isnt working! It doesnt matter how many tracks join the OMA, the organization is offering the same old business model the other Ohio organizations have. Give nonracing riders a reason to try racing!!!
If we talk about the downfall of D11 or CRA yet the OMA offers the same racing strategy how can anyone believe the OMA will do any better? I know being a rider/ racer and back yard track owner does not make me a promoter but neither does being a promoter make a person a businessman. Offering the same product as a sinking ship is a bad business model. Im not suggesting creating an entire new system but just offering a little better prep isnt going to entice new racers to tracks. Isnt that what everybody really wants here?
Nitrofish, you are correct. It is about time with friends and family at the track doing what we all enjoy together. That is the reason I go and trust me I am relishing the time with my son and family! You see me at the tracks and what Im doing. And you are also correct that you, me and most all of the CURRENT racers couldnt really care any less about the money and time spent at the races. But what about the riders who arent at the races? Those are the riders, the future racers, that need to be enticed to the tracks to help keep our loved sport alive. How do we as a group help offer them something they want in order to come to the races? The rider base is out there, look at the weekday practices. How many riders are at Smith rd, Applecabin, Malvern, Briarcliff, RT62, Beans and Ytown mx on a weekly basis that we never see at the local races? Hundreds. Some are at multiple tracks but many arent. And being around the pits and races since 1988 I have heard about every reason to race and not to race. Personally I LOVE racing. Im not into just practicing, I do it to keep fresh and try to improve for racing. Time is the biggest factor for me not being at the track more often. 2 young kids, a house and large yard to care for, a business to run and daily life eat up too much of my time to take up every sat and sunday. Even just 6am to 7pm on a sunday can be too much.
The 4 largest and most consistent reasons I hear people use who dont race much or at all are:
1. Time
2. Money
3. Not enough seat time
4. Classes are too small
Those are in no particular order. So what can you control or change to make these things a smaller obstacle for riders/racers to overcome? I know we "Dingleberries" dont know our ass from a hole in the ground but we make suggestions. We are then told we dont know how to promote. Remember it was us "Dingleberries" on this board who suggested racing quads on saturday for the battle series to help shorten the day. It was initially blown off like all the other suggestions we make. Now where is that idea? Everyone loves it. CTMX did it for their Halloween race even. I personally suggested running the slow beginner 50 kids on saturday with the quads. What happened there? CTMX did it at the Halloween race and it worked fantastic! So just maybe the "Dingleberries" on here know a little something about what WE riders/racers want. Both addressed the time issue and racers were happy all around!
Im really interested to see the OMA numbers without the battle series races in the mix. Those races are special and you guys did your home work on promoting them. By far the best Ohio races in years! On the other hand the normal sunday races dont seem to be any better than the others in Ohio. OIR stopped holding races this year because of low turnouts. Briarcliff doesnt hold any races other than the Battle and LL area quali..... I bet because they dont make money like a normal practice day because of low turnouts. A rider in this thread specifically said he stopped racing CRA because he was racing 5 guys all the time. Are the normal sunday races in OMA really any better? Why would he come to any OMA race if they arent?
It is great to see RT62 trying new things, mini only races, no gate fee for racers and his indoor winter series for 85cc and under is a massive success regardless of what was posted earlier about catering to specific groups not working. CTMX is out of control with trying new and innovative things that others shoot down and say cant work. The track continually grows its attendance even though they use transponders for their races. Each time you go to the facility the track is changed, there are new activities for families/ kids to participate in. Many food, bike part and clothing vendors at each race. Where are the vendors at BC and the other tracks? Bring them in! It costs you NOTHING and I know most tracks charge a small fee for them to have a spot. Let them in free if you have to, they add a big race feel.
Where and when are the OMA monthly meetings? Im sure all of you do this to make sure the organization is on the same path and growing in the direction you all want as a group. Are they open to us members? Maybe some of us should attend and see how the ship is being steered. Maybe it would calm down the wolves so to speak. Or maybe the meeting minutes could be posted for members to read and see what direction the organization is headed? We could learn from them as much as you do. Who is the president, VP , secretary and treasurer? Who would a member contact with questions and concerns?
I am far from attacking any one or any track here! I am worried for the sport I love. I dont see new racers coming out to support our tracks so that we can continue to race them, and yes the numbers do not lie. They arent coming. Does anyone on here think the average attendance numbers are good??? What do we as a group do? The dingleberries can only make suggestions about what we hear and want, and the ones that dont post here but read might not agree with some of us but they also might not agree with you either. The point of this thread was to show real numbers about racers, tracks and organizations. Highly useful information that shows the pluses and minuses in our area. Ohio racing isnt growing as much as some would lead us to believe. Its not dead, its not sinking but it certainly isnt thriving. So do we sit by and settle for what it is or do we make an effort to grow it much more than it is? A few of us want the latter.
Personally I have put my money where my mouth is, I have offered up my track and what little teaching I can help with for beginning 50cc riders all next summer one day a week for FREE at my track at home. I ask that everyone spread the word about it also! I want a group doing this not just a couple kids. Once a year I spend aprox $3000 of my own hard earned money to throw down a one day riding party for riders to enjoy for FREE. I always welcome people I know to ride here all year for a fun free place to ride. Sure my track isnt an par with any OMA track or others that are racing regularly but if you have been here to ride it is challenging and fun. 1:30 lap times and jumps as big as anything at any local track and even bigger than most yet still very safe. Davefest prep is pretty damn good too. I have 2 tractors and a watering system. My point being Im not just your average rider bitching about stuff. And honestly Im never actually bitching, Im making suggestions to try and help our sport. I dont get mad if people dont listen or dont like them, everyone is different. But I make suggestions, I tell people what Im thinking and dont talk behind their back. I offer my track and help as much as possible, I love our sport and only want others to enjoy it to the biggest extent they can.
If that makes me DHDS01 then so be it.
BriarcliffMx
PR Founding Father
Everyday.....on the phone there is a meeting between me and Jason.....Just about....everyday. OMA contact info is on our website.
"What real change is coming that will be different than what we have? Its funny that everyone wants to argue about how to change things for the better, new ideas for making MX more appealing to new racers that are shot down because it will hurt attendance. Look at the numbers!!! My goodness, you cant really do a whole lot worse!
We cant do much worse???? That's attack on every promotor that gets up at 5am, or is still watering at 10pm, gets off work early to run mowers, paint fences, work on equipment. So when I respond on the behalf of all of them, its not just me that feels this way. I'm just one of the few that will respond to crap like that.
GeorgiePorgie
PR Founding Father
It's a different time. Not sure if we can entice guys like Crute to race. But they are millennial age. 18-30 currently. There are millennial that can afford to race but it's much less than the last generation.
How do we entice them to get back into it ? Practicing and the battle series is really about the only feasible race options for guys like me. I have to pick my dates, and I pick for quality.
Now the quality is here, how do we pull the practicers like Crute onto the racetrack....?
When I figure it out you can all vote for me as Oma trustee at a future meeting. "Let's make motocross great again."
How do we entice them to get back into it ? Practicing and the battle series is really about the only feasible race options for guys like me. I have to pick my dates, and I pick for quality.
Now the quality is here, how do we pull the practicers like Crute onto the racetrack....?
When I figure it out you can all vote for me as Oma trustee at a future meeting. "Let's make motocross great again."
JO whats your non profit status? 501( c) 3 -(c) 6???
BriarcliffMx
PR Founding Father
For OMA, I'd have to ask the attorney. I thought he settled on c3. I don't know the difference between each, that's why he gets the big bucks. BC is for profit.
Route 62 mx park
PR Addict
Did Strouble write this for you?? Sure looks like the writings of Jarrett
TimSr90
PR Addict
Interesting numbers, but hard to find any evidence that "the sport" is growing. For that matter, looks like you are just trying to measure the growth of OMA, against the decline of others. OMA is certainly growing, and and I congratulate you. I disagree with any analysis that these numbers indicate there were more racers in Ohio than the year before. Maybe there were, but the answer cannot be found here.
If you want to claim that "the sport" has changed trajectory, you are going to need total number of racers at all events, and compare that number to the prior year.
I find it especially interesting that we are going to measure the success of OMA Faircross by comparing it to CRA Faircross instead of measuring each event against its prior year's numbers. Is Medina Fair a great growing success because it has more riders than the fair in Cadiz? I guess getting finished before dark does cut down on the lighting costs, but if you want to come up with ideas to improve OMA and grow the sport, it is foolish to overlook the events that used to bring in more once a year, non-series, hometown riders, and had more exposure to the non-racing public than any others. All the places potentially new racers come from. First you have to look at the actual numbers before claiming that OMA takeover has been good for Faircross.
If you want to claim that "the sport" has changed trajectory, you are going to need total number of racers at all events, and compare that number to the prior year.
I find it especially interesting that we are going to measure the success of OMA Faircross by comparing it to CRA Faircross instead of measuring each event against its prior year's numbers. Is Medina Fair a great growing success because it has more riders than the fair in Cadiz? I guess getting finished before dark does cut down on the lighting costs, but if you want to come up with ideas to improve OMA and grow the sport, it is foolish to overlook the events that used to bring in more once a year, non-series, hometown riders, and had more exposure to the non-racing public than any others. All the places potentially new racers come from. First you have to look at the actual numbers before claiming that OMA takeover has been good for Faircross.
hershey
PR Elite
Haha...no no. Not enough emotional feel good stuff!!
hershey
PR Elite
See....the problem with typing is this.....I'm not talking about the physical job of running a track! I'm not talking about effort and determination. You removed that quote from its context and make it seem that I am. If you read the original post (and I'm clarifying it now) I was talking about the average rider count. Again, if you or any one else is happy with those numbers then great. I wouldn't be. Must be the business man in me. I was suggesting trying something different because I don't believe the number of riders attending could get any worse. Hopefully Knox can post OMA numbers again this time without the battle rounds included. That will show the real picture for the normal Sunday race attendence.
Be inventive, be original. Try something others wont. I know you, I know you think all the time about change and new things to do at the track. Follow those instincts and try some. Doing the same thing and expecting better results is insane. If that still offends a track owner then it's because the truth hurts and/or they have a self esteem problem.
GoFar
PR Member
This is something that needs to be addressed for 2016 and beyond. My son is in the same situation, he got taken out because another rider was riding the wrong bike in the class. And the parent of the other kid has been around the track long enough that he should have known better, and I'm not sure why he put him out there. Only he knows I guess.
I'm not sure if this thread is the right place to bring it up, but this has caused us to miss half of 2015 and more than likely all of 2016 season.
john lilly
PR Addict
So, If you don't mind sharing what bike was he riding and in what class?
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BriarcliffMx
PR Founding Father
We have a protest procedure in place to try and remedy those situations, but I know, it shouldn't have happened in the first place. It's tough to pull everything together on race weekends, if you see it in staging, get ready to protest it ASAP, short of having a mandatory tech inspection in staging, I don't really know what else could be done for that one Go Far.
TwentyThreeMX
PR Founding Father
Hell - I dont even have the answer!!! I guess it comes down to time. I'm so busy lately, I dont have time to dedicate a whole day. Theres also a good chance that I'm so busy all day saturday if I"m riding sunday, that I'm not eating dinner until 11 or 12, and going to bed until 2 or 3, and im sure as hell not waking up at 5 or 6 AM to ride then.. Ill wake up at 10 and drive an hour or 2 and practice.
Then theres also the.. ride all day for $25 vs sit around to race 5 guys for more like $100... WOuld I go race those 5 guys if it was $25? maybe. but that doesnt help me wake up in the morning lol, so i cant even say that would do it for me. Everyones situation is differeent, theres no perfect solution to any of this. I just like riding my dirt bike and whatever fits into the budget / schedule for the day will win. this year thats been practices from 11-4 or so. Next year I do want to race more. I raced a51 and it gave me the itch again.
GoFar
PR Member
65 jr class. Other kid was riding a 50. The staging/gate guy should be able to distinguish between the two in this situation, but probably not in Double Ds situation, that would be a sign up deal. I have the belief that as riders and parents there is no reason we can't police ourselves to avoid this and make race day more enjoyable for everyone including track personnel so they don't have to have a tech at the gate inspecting bikes. If everybody follows the rules and is honest in class and bike choice there is less hard feelings in the end when accidents do happen. The other kid told my boy that his 65 was broke that's why he was riding his 50. My opinion, if your bike is broke, pull out of the class. We have done it. We have had other friends let us ride their bikes. We never rode our 65 in the 50 class, it wouldn't fly.
Briarcliff, I understand the protest process, however kind of hard to bring it up when you are in the squad/Lifeflight. If there is still an opportunity to protest a race from over 3 months ago, pm me I would be willing to talk to OMA officials about it. At your Battle race I know that a problem was brought up at the gate but the kid still raced. No harm, no foul, I don't believe it affected the outcome of the race. But, what if.....
Briarcliff, I understand the protest process, however kind of hard to bring it up when you are in the squad/Lifeflight. If there is still an opportunity to protest a race from over 3 months ago, pm me I would be willing to talk to OMA officials about it. At your Battle race I know that a problem was brought up at the gate but the kid still raced. No harm, no foul, I don't believe it affected the outcome of the race. But, what if.....
BriarcliffMx
PR Founding Father
So this kid was racing a 50 in the 65 class??
Mike
PR Addict
This is a great opportunity, you can buy a vintage bike for 1K race on good tracks with good guys,
Route 62 mx park
PR Addict
If we help each other, we will become stronger. If we unite, we will become larger. Show your support and enthusiasm for the sport and it will become contagious!