Battle race .... lets poke the bear.

[hershey]

Sound awesome and simple. Yeah Dave run all that wire, pull it back out and run it again.....ummmm ok

Lol.....if it makes a better job in the end and we make more money? Yes, we would do that. Buy hey, just keep making excuses why the Battle races are dwindling, you know....its just run its course.

Imagine if Lee Iacoca had said that about Chrysler when sales kept dropping. Look at them today. Maybe it's not the Battle that's run its course causing the low turnouts, something else has.

 

[jj584]

We give away both sides of the 50/50 at our banquet, it’s been roughly $1500 each. How much do you have a chance at winning at our competitors banquet?? I rest my case, good post though.

We don’t race any full series is what I was saying. We cherry pick each weekend for tracks we like, who has good weather, where is the friend group going frequently skipping races. For people like us and our friend group there is no reward to race anybody’s full series.

 

[hershey]

We don’t race any full series is what I was saying. We cherry pick each weekend for tracks we like, who has good weather, where is the friend group going frequently skipping races. For people like us and our friend group there is no reward to race anybody’s full series.

Wait, you mean you go to practice tracks on race weekends? And other times you race even though a practice track is open? We've been lead to believe that practice people don't race and racers don't go to practice tracks !

I can't remember who told us that, maybe it was Dr Faucci.

 

[Mcaupp22]

As a family who picks and chooses races and practice days your not getting us to commit to a series small or large by offering double points. Offer some nice prizes for the championship and you will spark the kids to pester the parents to go. Nice prizes are not defined by tire spoons, coozies, sweatshirts and the cheapest pair of 100% goggles. There is no fun in riding a series that contains some tracks you don't like while one you do like is offering open practice at the same time. The chance at some cash, dealer bucks or even a pit bike will.

But it has nothing to do with if people like the tracks or not it would be their first time even coming to them. The buckeye series crowd ride the buckeye series tracks and that’s it. My point is if you offer more points it will draw them all out to those tracks to try them. People in the buckeye series stick to the buckeye series and when oma is racing they just practice at eastfork and grears cause they only ride buckeye series races. So if there is a reason to get them up to those tracks they will drive I promise. People drive hours to race COCR and Grears just cause it’s in the series. Better yet the tracks are better for the battles and it would make them come. They just need a reason to make the trip.

 

[jj584]

But it has nothing to do with if people like the tracks or not it would be their first time even coming to them. The buckeye series crowd ride the buckeye series tracks and that’s it. My point is if you offer more points it will draw them all out to those tracks to try them. People in the buckeye series stick to the buckeye series and when oma is racing they just practice at eastfork and grears cause they only ride buckeye series races. So if there is a reason to get them up to those tracks they will drive I promise. People drive hours to race COCR and Grears just cause it’s in the series. Better yet the tracks are better for the battles and it would make them come. They just need a reason to make the trip.

So your saying if Malvern offered cash or gift cards for any class with more than 15 entries they wouldn’t pull some Buckeye people? As riders we put our money up every weekend. As track turnouts have been down, maybe the track owners should put some money up. You want kids to self advance out of C, offer the B class too 5 overall for the day a blind draw for $200.

 

[Mcaupp22]

So your saying if Malvern offered cash or gift cards for any class with more than 15 entries they wouldn’t pull some Buckeye people? As riders we put our money up every weekend. As track turnouts have been down, maybe the track owners should put some money up. You want kids to self advance out of C, offer the B class too 5 overall for the day a blind draw for $200.

It’s b class. Amateur racing. There’s no money. Unless it’s dealer checks or track bucks you do get paid. And for a track looking at b class why would they pay them. But I’m saying the buckeye series and the people I’m around all the time only race buckeye races. I’ve tried hundreds of times to make them come to battles and big oma races even on off weekends of the buckeye series. They won’t come. People in southern Ohio strictly race the series and there needs to be something that will bring those people to these races such as double points for buckeye series. Then everyone from buckeye series will show up. I know in Tennessee they give money to b riders and gift cards but in Ohio I’ve never been to one track that does that and honestly I don’t think that will happen. A gets paid and everyone else just pays to race for trophy’s is what it is. But they care about points and will go to these big races if there is something to big to achieve at them.

 

[Mcaupp22]

So your saying if Malvern offered cash or gift cards for any class with more than 15 entries they wouldn’t pull some Buckeye people? As riders we put our money up every weekend. As track turnouts have been down, maybe the track owners should put some money up. You want kids to self advance out of C, offer the B class too 5 overall for the day a blind draw for $200.

Also I’m from Dayton area and it’s 3 hours easily to malvern. People in the buckeye series tend to be mainly from southern part of the state so they aren’t going to drive to another series their not chasing points in just for gift cards. Especially knowing it won’t be much.

 

[jj584]

It’s b class. Amateur racing. There’s no money. Unless it’s dealer checks or track bucks you do get paid. And for a track looking at b class why would they pay them. But I’m saying the buckeye series and the people I’m around all the time only race buckeye races. I’ve tried hundreds of times to make them come to battles and big oma races even on off weekends of the buckeye series. They won’t come. People in southern Ohio strictly race the series and there needs to be something that will bring those people to these races such as double points for buckeye series. Then everyone from buckeye series will show up. I know in Tennessee they give money to b riders and gift cards but in Ohio I’ve never been to one track that does that and honestly I don’t think that will happen. A gets paid and everyone else just pays to race for trophy’s is what it is. But they care about points and will go to these big races if there is something to big to achieve at them.

Try not to get hung up on the cash example, it was just that an example. Need to find ways to in incentivize people to race the series and not just the events they like. The only way to do that is with some sort of give back gimmick. Race three in a row the fourth is half off or something. Food for thought, when the pros are offered a large purse we go to those to watch that race! I don’t like Chillitown but when he’s throwing out a couple K’s we go to watch those boys throw down.

 

[BriarcliffMx]

Lol.....if it makes a better job in the end and we make more money? Yes, we would do that. Buy hey, just keep making excuses why the Battle races are dwindling, you know....its just run its course.

Imagine if Lee Iacoca had said that about Chrysler when sales kept dropping. Look at them today. Maybe it's not the Battle that's run its course causing the low turnouts, something else has.

Cool I always compared myself to Lee, I know what I need to do now.

 

[BriarcliffMx]

Try not to get hung up on the cash example, it was just that an example. Need to find ways to in incentivize people to race the series and not just the events they like. The only way to do that is with some sort of give back gimmick. Race three in a row the fourth is half off or something. Food for thought, when the pros are offered a large purse we go to those to watch that race! I don’t like Chillitown but when he’s throwing out a couple K’s we go to watch those boys throw down.

You said cash in your other post?? You said maybe offer cash, so would that really incentivize you or are you just posting to post.

I’ve always thought this, if we made the races free, you still would not have record turnouts unless it’s a track they like close to home. AND they want to race. AND more importantly they thought it was the happening race to be at. I’ve done free practices where the expected outcome made it less than what everyone thought. People are more about winning in their head than on the track. The key to race turnouts is getting people to arrive in groups or pods of friends. But hey I just started doing this a couple years ago.

 

[hershey]

The key isn't money, it isn't points and it isn't fancy trinket gifts. It is making it an event. That was the original draw when the series drew 500 - 800 per track. Now Chillitown is the only track drawing the high end of those numbers and Malvern in the 600 range in the battle series....why ?? Because Jeremy Forcum knew how to promote a race. You saw marketing for that race every where, Pitracer, Bike shops, FB, IG, Twitter. He also put hundreds of hours into the track feel (banners, landscaping, paint, special event items like Halloween ghosts ect). The grounds were in his favor also. Malvern does the same and that is why his numbers were still ok with everyone running on top of him.

The Battle series isn't promoted at all. I don't ever see anything about the series, just about an individual race in that series. It was originally started as something great and it was plastered every where. Tracks were proud to be part of it, part of something big and exciting. All the Battle series tracks used to promote the series,, now?? Nothing. And after years of the every man for himself leadership it's all fallen apart.

My original point to this entire thread was to point this out. Work together, promote the series together, support each other on those race weekends. If the now 4 tracks did that together for just 4 weekends a year, the battle series would flourish again. A little extra work would return in huge ways. It's a tough concept for some here obviously but it is true .... Givers gain.

 

[BriarcliffMx]

The key isn't money, it isn't points and it isn't fancy trinket gifts. It is making it an event. That was the original draw when the series drew 500 - 800 per track. Now Chillitown is the only track drawing the high end of those numbers and Malvern in the 600 range in the battle series....why ?? Because Jeremy Forcum knew how to promote a race. You saw marketing for that race every where, Pitracer, Bike shops, FB, IG, Twitter. He also put hundreds of hours into the track feel (banners, landscaping, paint, special event items like Halloween ghosts ect). The grounds were in his favor also. Malvern does the same and that is why his numbers were still ok with everyone running on top of him.

The Battle series isn't promoted at all. I don't ever see anything about the series, just about an individual race in that series. It was originally started as something great and it was plastered every where. Tracks were proud to be part of it, part of something big and exciting. All the Battle series tracks used to promote the series,, now?? Nothing. And after years of the every man for himself leadership it's all fallen apart.

My original point to this entire thread was to point this out. Work together, promote the series together, support each other on those race weekends. If the now 4 tracks did that together for just 4 weekends a year, the battle series would flourish again. A little extra work would return in huge ways. It's a tough concept for some here obviously but it is true .... Givers gain.

WTF does forcum have to do with the current promotions at CT?? How are you able to survive life on the daily? The reason CT draws is the camping, and people knowing there will be a big number. This is not just my opinion ask a cross section of the consumer. Its also the date, they have a good date that is out of the Regionals/AQs. Didn't the midwest pro-am get moved to CT last year? Did it draw 700-900?? I dont recall, but I doubt it. Dates really don't matter do they. Race tracks are like vending machines, just put quarters in, simple. I think my battle suffered because I had to move it up in the spring, if I could have ran it in its normal spot it would been the same as usual. But hey I don't try new things, I don't work with other promoters (PVR), to get them in the series. Nope. I give you one thing you don't give up, that is certain.

 

[Jack Bierbower]

Yeah very little promoting for the battle - that's the game now. Look at the baja brawl.

They build the hype all year.

 

[jj584]

You said cash in your other post?? You said maybe offer cash, so would that really incentivize you or are you just posting to post.

I’ve always thought this, if we made the races free, you still would not have record turnouts unless it’s a track they like close to home. AND they want to race. AND more importantly they thought it was the happening race to be at. I’ve done free practices where the expected outcome made it less than what everyone thought. People are more about winning in their head than on the track. The key to race turnouts is getting people to arrive in groups or pods of friends. But hey I just started doing this a couple years ago.

Cash, dealer bucks, free riding would incentivize us. Hell even a gas card from speedway would be sweet in the Biden Admin. You also just said it, the key to a turnout for an (event) is getting people to show up in pods or groups of friends, I affirmed that in an earlier post when I said we cherry pick the tracks we like racing or practice. How do you get the cherry pickers like me to attend a race the weekend after after we just ran one? Need something more than has been happening. Let me also say that I'm speaking only for myself and the people that I know that don't follow any series. I'm curious to hear from people who religiously follow a series as to why they do it. I can tell you why and where we ride every weekend for specific reasons.

 

[jj584]

WTF does forcum have to do with the current promotions at CT?? How are you able to survive life on the daily? The reason CT draws is the camping, and people knowing there will be a big number. This is not just my opinion ask a cross section of the consumer. Its also the date, they have a good date that is out of the Regionals/AQs. Didn't the midwest pro-am get moved to CT last year? Did it draw 700-900?? I dont recall, but I doubt it. Dates really don't matter do they. Race tracks are like vending machines, just put quarters in, simple. I think my battle suffered because I had to move it up in the spring, if I could have ran it in its normal spot it would been the same as usual. But hey I don't try new things, I don't work with other promoters (PVR), to get them in the series. Nope. I give you one thing you don't give up, that is certain.

Regionals and AQ's are for sure pulling people. Will be interesting to see what Malvern looks like this weekend with Red Bud happening.

 

[hershey]

WTF does forcum have to do with the current promotions at CT?? How are you able to survive life on the daily? The reason CT draws is the camping, and people knowing there will be a big number. This is not just my opinion ask a cross section of the consumer. Its also the date, they have a good date that is out of the Regionals/AQs. Didn't the midwest pro-am get moved to CT last year? Did it draw 700-900?? I dont recall, but I doubt it. Dates really don't matter do they. Race tracks are like vending machines, just put quarters in, simple. I think my battle suffered because I had to move it up in the spring, if I could have ran it in its normal spot it would been the same as usual. But hey I don't try new things, I don't work with other promoters (PVR), to get them in the series. Nope. I give you one thing you don't give up, that is certain.

Forcum started the draw to CT. It was his doing that the following is there now. Had he not promoted it properly it wouldn't be what it is today.

Make all the excuses you want, the fact is the Battle series is run with an every man for himself mantra. You've confirmed that multiple times just in this thread. It will never get back to what it was with that mentality and a lack of heavy promotion.

Cash, dealer bucks, free riding would incentivize us. Hell even a gas card from speedway would be sweet in the Biden Admin. You also just said it, the key to a turnout for an (event) is getting people to show up in pods or groups of friends, I affirmed that in an earlier post when I said we cherry pick the tracks we like racing or practice. How do you get the cherry pickers like me to attend a race the weekend after after we just ran one? Need something more than has been happening. Let me also say that I'm speaking only for myself and the people that I know that don't follow any series. I'm curious to hear from people who religiously follow a series as to why they do it. I can tell you why and where we ride every weekend for specific reasons.

I wouldn't say religiously but we follow the Battle races each year. Other than that, we do exactly what you do. We pick and choose what will be fun for us. The Battle races always attracted me because of the event and full gates. Last weekend I didn't ride because I'm still recovering but I think there were only 5 or 6 riders in my class. I cant stand the track at CT. It's horrible and the prep sucks usually. We still go to the races there because the kids have an absolute blast all weekend and the gates are usually big.

It's also because it's a short, now 4 race series, that you have a low commitment time frame for. It's something we can still do for a series award without taking up the entire summer. It's more about how ell you ride as opposed to who races the most all year.

 

[GeorgiePorgie]

I wonder how many people actually chase points vs chasing competition. And how many of those also chase to AVOID competition....

 

[DelBalso28]

Regionals are definitely pulling a bit from the battle series.

Ktm contingency is gone from the series, that was HUGE in years past.

PVR is goofy to have in the series. And that track could be 3x as cool without that concrete start. I won’t even race there unless it’s a regional or pro/am because I know it’s going to cost me a $100 tire. But hey MXtire is right on site for ya.

Most everywhere I’ve raced out of state pays out the vet classes. I’ve grown to really appreciate that and really lost all interest racing for nothing anymore. Would be awesome to see that come to the OMA.

The combination of that stuff is why I’m out for this year. Not really complaining, just some reasoning from my point of view.
If there was contingency or payout on the line, you can bet I’d be doing a smokey burnout on the start at Pleasure Valley come August.

Also, I am assuming the battle at Chillitown will be their Pro/Am they mentioned, that is my draw there. I’ve yet to see that confirmed though and the clock is ticking.

These little bits matter, even if I’m just one person bringing something up, it’s stuff to consider from a promoter standpoint.

 

[Toddco327]

So what I’m gathering after reading over 100+ comments.

My kid says the tracks are all boring.
There are to many classes
It takes to long
Give me free stuff to come ride
Pay us for class wins
We need better parking.
Only run one track a weekend
Run all the tracks
Promoters need to do a better job
We need free tires because if a 6’ concrete start
It was better in the 80’s
Sign up takes to long
The battle races suck
I want more competition
I don’t full gates of C riders
Transponders are better
We don’t want to pay for transponders
Paper result sheets are best.
Its to far away.

But this bear wrestling idea has some legs!

HAS ANYONE FOUND THE WIFI PASSWORD YET!!!!

 

[GeorgiePorgie]

So what I’m gathering after reading over 100+ comments.

My kid says the tracks are all boring.
There are to many classes
It takes to long
Give me free stuff to come ride
Pay us for class wins
We need better parking.
Only run one track a weekend
Run all the tracks
Promoters need to do a better job
We need free tires because if a 6’ concrete start
It was better in the 80’s
Sign up takes to long
The battle races suck
I want more competition
I don’t full gates of C riders
Transponders are better
We don’t want to pay for transponders
Paper result sheets are best.
Its to far away.

But this bear wrestling idea has some legs!

HAS ANYONE FOUND THE WIFI PASSWORD YET!!!!

I see you’ve selected many points and spun them as true negatives. Can you spin some positives on that or are we all just hangin out dirty laundry and with no interest in actually trying to wash the product to make it better?